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It seems to me you have a rather strong attachment to your beliefs. Do you feel you've nothing more to learn? Do you think you could be wrong in your understanding of anything?
I think that what we are running into here are 2 schools of thought. One believes that you should be studying the scriptures for all of your answers, until perhaps by osmosis they become your answers, almost unquestioningly.
The other school believes the scriptures are merely directions on how to study your own self, and world, as deeply as possible in order to find your on answers, or even go beyond needing answers.
Guess which one I am. I bet my words give me away. ; ^ )
Aaki, I get the feeling we are just bickering over terms and definitions. I'm not here to argue. I understand everything you've said, and find little to disagree with. The problem is we're not communicating on the same channel. I think you may be over-analyzing my posts. My points are pretty simple, if unconventional. I'm not trying to say you don't "get it," only that I have failed to skillfully communicate my intent. It's not that important, anyway, so don't worry about it.
Do I think I could be wrong? Of course. I always reserve the right to be wrong, or to change my mind at any time without warning or consent.
Am I attached to my beliefs? Not at all. I am not a big fan of beliefs. I have a few I like to entertain, but I have no particular devotion to them. Beliefs are very fickle commodities. I prefer, whenever possible, to stick to what I know through first-hand experience. Even then, perceptions are unreliable. Even more unreliable are the words with which we communicate those perceptions. This thread is proof enough of that.
There is always more to learn. It never ends. I enjoy writing and posting my thoughts because it helps me improve not only my communication skills, but also my own understanding. There are a few individuals here who have inspired me and given me something new to think about. Many others have provided insights more from their behavior and interactions than from the content of their writing. Those who confront and challenge us teach us the most about ourselves, if we remain open to the lessons.
I too use my writing here, on this forum, like a form of contemplation. It serves me like fuel to look deeper, clarify my sight, and let go.
Rubbing against other people, like sand paper, will rub away our own rough spots (places where we are grasping too tightly to our ego definitions of who we are) and smooth us out.
Our jiva (ego self) is not to be perfected as mind would have us believe. It is rather the road on which we must travel.
Or a favorite quote: “This is not about liberation of the (small self/ego), but about liberation from this small self.”
I think that what we are running into here are 2 schools of thought. One believes that you should be studying the scriptures for all of your answers, until perhaps by osmosis they become your answers, almost unquestioningly.
The other school believes the scriptures are merely directions on how to study your own self, and world, as deeply as possible in order to find your on answers, or even go beyond needing answers.
Guess which one I am. I bet my words give me away. ; ^ )
Peace,
S9
I don't have a clue... If you don't mind, which one are you and why?
Aaki, I get the feeling we are just bickering over terms and definitions. I'm not here to argue.
There's no need to look at it as if we're arguing.
But we are saying 2 different things. Nirvana is not a case of dealing with situations, while suffering with moods and emotions, and trying to handle them nicely.
Nirvana is getting rid of ignorance so that we are not confused and deceived by situations, and so we do not give rise to moods or emotions about them. We do this by understanding that we lack a self. We the person, the name we call ourselves, lack a self. Which is precisely the thing we try to protect when we are experiencing moods and destructive emotions.
We get into touch situations and we grasp to 'me' and therefore misunderstand the ourselves and the world and we suffer.
There's no need to look at it as if we're arguing.
But we are saying 2 different things. Nirvana is not a case of dealing with situations, while suffering with moods and emotions, and trying to handle them nicely.
Nirvana is getting rid of ignorance so that we are not confused and deceived by situations, and so we do not give rise to moods or emotions about them. We do this by understanding that we lack a self. We the person, the name we call ourselves, lack a self. Which is precisely the thing we try to protect when we are experiencing moods and destructive emotions.
We get into touch situations and we grasp to 'me' and therefore misunderstand the ourselves and the world and we suffer.
I find nothing here to disagree with.
That's what I meant when I mentioned bickering over terms and definitions. I don't think we disagree at all on this, except perhaps what we define as a "mood"...hardly a point worthy of contention.
As much as I enjoy writing and sharing my thoughts, language is such a feeble medium. I think this is all the more evident in a Buddhist forum, where much of what we work to understand is not expressible in language. When it becomes clear we are debating language more than we are the underlying ideas, I feel it's time to bow out.
I think that sometimes the truth hides behind language. We think that we are speaking the same language, English, but we are not. We are actually speaking a subjective language that is only similar on many points with others.
In this same way, we believe that we are living in the same world. We are not.
Ramana said, “We do not live in the world. We live in our heads. “
I hope you are only leaving this particular discussion, and not this sight. I would miss you.
Surprisingly, the goal of Buddhism is NOT to become happy! It is to become liberated.
Liberated from many things, including our preference for feeling happy and our aversion for unhappiness.
No significance with happiness. No significance with unhappiness. Observe both, observe how we "want". Real happiness is being free from the tyranny of wanting outcomes and results ... including the desire to be happy.
FoibleFull that is so wright, so short, so powerfull. It makes my day.
I am convinced since a was young that the grasping for happiness is causing the opposite. When i am happy there is something in me that says "enjoy it wile it lasts" meaning that i fear of losing the happiness. When i am unhappy i try by all means to get rid of this fealing..... aaauw i can't stand it this must go away, help!!!!
I consider myself a beginner but by accepting unhappiness, fear,..... in meditation something changes instead of pushing these "bad" feelings away by thinking c'omon think of something else, it is not so worse and then there is an other voice that says nono it is terrible. Well i end up with all kind of rational reasons ideas why or why not i should feel like this and also all kind of actions i should take or not take. This does not work!!!!!
Concentrating on the physical feelings of these hated moods is far better. Oserving what it does to my body and not making the end of the world out of it.
As my yoga teacher once said; whe are not on this earth to be happy but to learn something. It is a view on live that is liberating.
1:Let go of the rod...
2: it burns it burns !!!
1:Let go of it then...
2:It still burns !!!
1:Thats because your still holding it !
2:Its burning arrgghh !
1:Sigh when your ready to let go, you can find me on the cushion.
Of course moods and emotions are "normal." Let's not be pedantic about this. Moods and emotions have both mental and physical causes. Your hormones can make you feel sad or happy, independent of your what you think. It's chemical, it comes with having a body. That is not to say we are slaves to chemical processes. An awakened mind can intervene and recognize a mood for what it is. Moods have nothing to do with ignorance. Becoming your mood is ignorance. Having a mood is just part of the physical experience of life.
Absolutely agree with this. Love is an emotion and one is encouraged to send out loving kindness to the most difficult people we know. Was this poor advice? Are we advised to have no emotions? Would that be the route to enlightenment? It is more like acceptance of all emotions rather than the elimination of emotion that leads to enlightenment.
FoibleFull that is so wright, so short, so powerfull. It makes my day.
I am convinced since a was young that the grasping for happiness is causing the opposite. When i am happy there is something in me that says "enjoy it wile it lasts" meaning that i fear of losing the happiness. When i am unhappy i try by all means to get rid of this fealing..... aaauw i can't stand it this must go away, help!!!!
I consider myself a beginner but by accepting unhappiness, fear,..... in meditation something changes instead of pushing these "bad" feelings away by thinking c'omon think of something else, it is not so worse and then there is an other voice that says nono it is terrible. Well i end up with all kind of rational reasons ideas why or why not i should feel like this and also all kind of actions i should take or not take. This does not work!!!!!
Concentrating on the physical feelings of these hated moods is far better. Oserving what it does to my body and not making the end of the world out of it.
As my yoga teacher once said; whe are not on this earth to be happy but to learn something. It is a view on live that is liberating.
I find this resonates with me as well. Acceptance of all there is in life gives one an approach to life that is functional and balanced.
The pursuit of "happiness" is just as problematic as the avoidance of "unhappiness" is. One leads us to greed and wanting, and the other leads us to fear and aversion. Both suffering. The solution is not to eliminate either, (aversion) but to learn to embrace both.
'A man was sitting with this big bag of little red chillies very hot! Tears were streaming down his face and he was panting and crying and eating chillies. An old friend came by and asked, 'Nasrudin, what are you doing there eating all those really hot chillies?' Nasrudin, between gasps for air and wiping away his tears and blowing his nose, managed to say, 'I'm looking for the sweet one.'
Comments
Do you?
I think that what we are running into here are 2 schools of thought. One believes that you should be studying the scriptures for all of your answers, until perhaps by osmosis they become your answers, almost unquestioningly.
The other school believes the scriptures are merely directions on how to study your own self, and world, as deeply as possible in order to find your on answers, or even go beyond needing answers.
Guess which one I am. I bet my words give me away. ; ^ )
Peace,
S9
Am I attached to my beliefs? Not at all. I am not a big fan of beliefs. I have a few I like to entertain, but I have no particular devotion to them. Beliefs are very fickle commodities. I prefer, whenever possible, to stick to what I know through first-hand experience. Even then, perceptions are unreliable. Even more unreliable are the words with which we communicate those perceptions. This thread is proof enough of that.
There is always more to learn. It never ends. I enjoy writing and posting my thoughts because it helps me improve not only my communication skills, but also my own understanding. There are a few individuals here who have inspired me and given me something new to think about. Many others have provided insights more from their behavior and interactions than from the content of their writing. Those who confront and challenge us teach us the most about ourselves, if we remain open to the lessons.
~ AD
I too use my writing here, on this forum, like a form of contemplation. It serves me like fuel to look deeper, clarify my sight, and let go.
Rubbing against other people, like sand paper, will rub away our own rough spots (places where we are grasping too tightly to our ego definitions of who we are) and smooth us out.
Our jiva (ego self) is not to be perfected as mind would have us believe. It is rather the road on which we must travel.
Or a favorite quote: “This is not about liberation of the (small self/ego), but about liberation from this small self.”
Warm regards,
S9
I don't have a clue... If you don't mind, which one are you and why?
But we are saying 2 different things. Nirvana is not a case of dealing with situations, while suffering with moods and emotions, and trying to handle them nicely.
Nirvana is getting rid of ignorance so that we are not confused and deceived by situations, and so we do not give rise to moods or emotions about them. We do this by understanding that we lack a self. We the person, the name we call ourselves, lack a self. Which is precisely the thing we try to protect when we are experiencing moods and destructive emotions.
We get into touch situations and we grasp to 'me' and therefore misunderstand the ourselves and the world and we suffer.
S9: Miles of Smiles.
Read me for a while, and figure this one out. It will be good practice. ; ^ )
Be careful though. Cleverness isn’t quite the same thing as Clarity.
Happy Hunting,
S9
That's what I meant when I mentioned bickering over terms and definitions. I don't think we disagree at all on this, except perhaps what we define as a "mood"...hardly a point worthy of contention.
As much as I enjoy writing and sharing my thoughts, language is such a feeble medium. I think this is all the more evident in a Buddhist forum, where much of what we work to understand is not expressible in language. When it becomes clear we are debating language more than we are the underlying ideas, I feel it's time to bow out.
Let's just agree to agree. :cool:
Namaste,
~ AD
I think that sometimes the truth hides behind language. We think that we are speaking the same language, English, but we are not. We are actually speaking a subjective language that is only similar on many points with others.
In this same way, we believe that we are living in the same world. We are not.
Ramana said, “We do not live in the world. We live in our heads. “
I hope you are only leaving this particular discussion, and not this sight. I would miss you.
Your friend,
S9
FoibleFull that is so wright, so short, so powerfull. It makes my day.
I am convinced since a was young that the grasping for happiness is causing the opposite. When i am happy there is something in me that says "enjoy it wile it lasts" meaning that i fear of losing the happiness. When i am unhappy i try by all means to get rid of this fealing..... aaauw i can't stand it this must go away, help!!!!
I consider myself a beginner but by accepting unhappiness, fear,..... in meditation something changes instead of pushing these "bad" feelings away by thinking c'omon think of something else, it is not so worse and then there is an other voice that says nono it is terrible. Well i end up with all kind of rational reasons ideas why or why not i should feel like this and also all kind of actions i should take or not take. This does not work!!!!!
Concentrating on the physical feelings of these hated moods is far better. Oserving what it does to my body and not making the end of the world out of it.
As my yoga teacher once said; whe are not on this earth to be happy but to learn something. It is a view on live that is liberating.
2: it burns it burns !!!
1:Let go of it then...
2:It still burns !!!
1:Thats because your still holding it !
2:Its burning arrgghh !
1:Sigh when your ready to let go, you can find me on the cushion.
Absolutely agree with this. Love is an emotion and one is encouraged to send out loving kindness to the most difficult people we know. Was this poor advice? Are we advised to have no emotions? Would that be the route to enlightenment? It is more like acceptance of all emotions rather than the elimination of emotion that leads to enlightenment.
I find this resonates with me as well. Acceptance of all there is in life gives one an approach to life that is functional and balanced.
The pursuit of "happiness" is just as problematic as the avoidance of "unhappiness" is. One leads us to greed and wanting, and the other leads us to fear and aversion. Both suffering. The solution is not to eliminate either, (aversion) but to learn to embrace both.
Ah, Nasrudin, a favorite of mine.
A Holy Fool.
Or learn while you laugh.
Or a little sugar makes the medicine go down.
Thanks for that,
S9