The Nimitta

Deshy

I know this is asking too much private information but if you don’t mind please tell me is there anyone in this forum who has seen the “nimitha” or at least been in the immediate neighborhood of it? I just need to know if it is possible by the way we practice

Deshy

none?

RenGalskap

"Nimitta" seems to have a number of different meanings.

fivebells

Why would you like to know, Deshy?

Deshy

I have this silly need to have some reassurance that such a state can be achieved by the way we practice. You know by doing 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the night sort of thing. I know it's a bit lame but ... lol

fivebells

But the nimittas are not the point of the practice. The point is peace.

Deshy

Yeah I know where you are getting at Now that's what I like about joining this forum as I don't have a teacher at least you guys can put me back on track when I'm off track

fivebells

No worries.

NamelessRiver

This whole deal of nimitta is rather confusing. I had a post about it and someone pointed me to a book where the guy talks about his experience of nimitta (some white light or something - in his case), and Buddhadasa speaks of it in a literal way in his books (which can be confusing at times), but I never saw it. So far the concept has been more of a hindrance to me than anything else.

jinzang

I'm curious about the idea of nimitta, because I've only found it in the Theravadin tradition, specifically in the Path of Purification or texts based on it. I've never found mention of it in any other tradition. I've never experienced anything like it, though I've been practicing for more than thirty years. But, then, my meditation abilities are not the most impressive.

fivebells

Same here. There have been jhanas, but no nimitta. Entry to the higher jhanas has been rare, haphazard and sudden, though, and has occurred at times of great loss. Perhaps nimittas arise with more consistent pursuit of the jhanas.

DhammaDhatu

Nimitta occurs with (real) jhana. It is merely a sign of one-pointedness. The mind sticks to the nimitta like with glue or a magnet.

One can be a full blown stream-enterer, saturated with insight of the four noble truths & the three characteristics, before one encounters the nimitta.

Let it go. It has no benefit whatsover.

fivebells

That's interesting. What do you mean by nimitta, Dhatu?

Deshy

fivebells wrote: »

Same here. There have been jhanas, but no nimitta. Entry to the higher jhanas has been rare, haphazard and sudden, though, and has occurred at times of great loss. Perhaps nimittas arise with more consistent pursuit of the jhanas.

fivebells, nimitta is actually the doorway to jhana. Nimitta is said to be a mirror image of your pure mind, freed from the five sensory world. That doesn't mean it's something floating in the air or such but nimitta only arises when the meditator lose all contact from the outside like feel, touch, sounds, sight. Thus it arises in deep meditation, long after we even lose the thought of breathing.

Here is a phase from the book "mindfulness, bliss and beyond" describing what nimitta is:

1) It appears only after the meditator has been with the "beautiful breath" for a long time. "beautiful breath" here is the when one has let go of the five senses altogether and even the thought of breathing has gone

2) It appears when the breath disappears

3) It comes only after the five senses (sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch) are completely absent

4) It manifests in the silent mind, in deep meditation absent from inner speech

5) It's powerfully attractive, beautiful object which is later reflected by meditators as like a powerful star etc

6) It arises after a sense of utmost happiness and bliss.

This is described in greater detail in later chapters

Deshy

It is by letting go of this mental object only can one enter into a jhana. The more you let go of the nimitta the more it manifests and then burst and blossom into jhanas. This is what's written

NamelessRiver

Can you be enlightened without jhanas?

pegembara

Dhamma Dhatu wrote: »

Nimitta occurs with (real) jhana. It is merely a sign of one-pointedness. The mind sticks to the nimitta like with glue or a magnet.

One can be a full blown stream-enterer, saturated with insight of the four noble truths & the three characteristics, before one encounters the nimitta.

Let it go. It has no benefit whatsover.

Do nimittas appear as very attractive mind objects such as lights, beautiful sceneries, deities and the Buddha?
Is that why in Zen one is asked to "kill" the Buddha which appears in ones meditation?

NamelessRiver

Do nimittas appear as very attractive mind objects such as lights, beautiful sceneries, deities and the Buddha?

There is no standards, so they aren't necessarily beautiful or attractive, I think.

Is that why in Zen one is asked to "kill" the Buddha which appears in ones meditation?

No, I think this relates, not only to meditation, but to the grasping of the doctrine, or clinging to the idea of the "Buddha".

Deshy

NamelessRiver wrote: »

Can you be enlightened without jhanas?

According to what I have read in modern day books it's not. But there are indications in some old texts that it is possible. For example, it is said that the village lady Khema became enlightened by observing the way a lamp's flame goes out but I am not sure in which context it was done etc.

According to what I have read from experiences of modern day monks and according to what I have understood from what the Buddha has said, jhanas are essential for enlightenment. It is jhanas that stills the mind to a level enough for deep wisdom and insight to materialize and get hard coded.

Deshy

NamelessRiver wrote: »

There is no standards, so they aren't necessarily beautiful or attractive, I think..

I'm sorry but have to quote the book once again on this. According to what Ajhan Brahm says in his book, nimittas sometimes arise not so bright and beautiful. This is recognized as an obstacle. He says the nimitta should be brightened up by the meditator by careful practice not only during meditation but also in day to day life.

Since the nimitta is actually an image of your own mind the fact that it is not pure enough means you should practice charity, simple livelihood, goodwill etc more in your day to day life. Thus the Buddha's advice on "Dhana" (charity) and "Sila" (goodwill and simple lifestyle) as predatory stages for meditation tallies perfectly.

It is only through a blissful, beautiful bright nimitta can jhana's be blossomed according to the book

RenGalskap

NamelessRiver wrote: »

No, I think this relates, not only to meditation, but to the grasping of the doctrine, or clinging to the idea of the "Buddha".

Bingo.

RenGalskap

Deshy, I've seen other descriptions of nimittas. You might want to do a Google search and read about them from other sources.

Deshy

RenGalskap wrote: »

Deshy, I've seen other descriptions of nimittas. You might want to do a Google search and read about them from other sources.

I actually have and most of them kind of tally with the one in the book except for a few which are not really coming from reliable sources. If you don't mind can you point me to something which is different. I am always open for a different view if it's reliable ...

NamelessRiver

The Buddha didn't say anything about nimittas when he was talking about mindfulness of breathing, as far as I know, at least not in this "mystical" image that appears out of nowhere. The whole thing sounds weird or irrelevant. For me, the jhanas are supposed to be characterized in other ways (like the 5 characteristics) and not by an image arising from perception, specially because perception distoritions can come in many ways that are not related to jhanic experiences. Here is one exemple (stare for 30 seconds on the red cross then look at a white wall or something like that):

RenGalskap

Deshy wrote: »

If you don't mind can you point me to something which is different. I am always open for a different view if it's reliable ...

Actually, I think I was confused about context. It does have different meanings, but in this context it refers to something experienced prior to entering the jhanas. At least that's what Bhikkhu Bodhi's notes say.

HastyLiberation

Since nobody answered the initial question...
Yes Ive experienced it. Only once, about a year ago.
I focused on three words "Let it go", after reading a short text (link below). I didnt know what a nimitta was at the time so it was very weird to say the least. But extremely strong and very still. I prolly could use a thousand more words to describe it but I wont.

I know its not a race for these kinds of experiences, but they are a sign of progress and the only way to get there is by stop thinking about them. Funny in a way.

Hmm bswa.org is down so I cant look up the link. But the article is called something like:
"Beginners meditation"

Deshy

NamelessRiver wrote: »

The Buddha didn't say anything about nimittas when he was talking about mindfulness of breathing, as far as I know, at least not in this "mystical" image that appears out of nowhere. The whole thing sounds weird or irrelevant. For me, the jhanas are supposed to be characterized in other ways (like the 5 characteristics) and not by an image arising from perception, specially because perception distoritions can come in many ways that are not related to jhanic experiences. Here is one exemple (stare for 30 seconds on the red cross then look at a white wall or something like that):

Nimitta is NOT a mystical image. It is also not visual at all. How can anyone see anything at this point the entire five senses are switched off. Nimitta is nothing we can compare with in the five sensory world but it's later remembered by meditators according to the perceptions they have about it as "a shinning star", "blue diamond", "goldern diamond", full moon or not as a light but merely as incredible bliss etc. That is why there are many descriptions to it but the point is they are all describing the same phenomena.

It is believed that the Buddha referred to the Nimitta in this short passage taken from Anguttara Nikaya:

"The mind, O monks, is luminous, but it is defiled by adventitious defilements ..."

It is the nimitta that is radiant and luminous. It is like a mirror image of the pure mind object. This phenomena cannot even be compared to the staring at a red cross for 30 seconds thing ... Nimitta is just an imperfect perception of a phenomena that happens in deep meditation; a mental object that we later try in vain to describe through five sensory examples.

Also, Nimitta is NOT jhana. It is only the doorway to jhana. Jhana experience is something totally different. Inside a jhana there is no luminous radiant thing ...

Deshy

HastyLiberation wrote: »

Since nobody answered the initial question...
Yes Ive experienced it. Only once, about a year ago.
I focused on three words "Let it go", after reading a short text (link below). I didnt know what a nimitta was at the time so it was very weird to say the least. But extremely strong and very still. I prolly could use a thousand more words to describe it but I wont.

I know its not a race for these kinds of experiences, but they are a sign of progress and the only way to get there is by stop thinking about them. Funny in a way.

This is exactly one reason why I initially asked this question. Knowing these things help you in your progress because when you see one, you know what it is. It is said that Nimitta experience is a bit scary for a beginner and very strange. It also helps to know that this stage is possible with the way we meditate. Thanks for the reply

Brigid

Great thread.

I'm learning a lot. Especially about not looking at the center of an object for 30 seconds.

Thanks for that, Nameless. I appreciate it. *she says, sarcastically* I love Obama and all but I didn't really want his face to be permanently seared onto my retina.

...oh wait, it's gone. *phew*