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How to join a sangha?
Hello everyone. Hope your all well,
I am curious how one becomes a monk and enters a Sanga? How does one approach this vocation? I was interested in becoming without really knowing what it entailed. Joining with a Sangha twice for a few days made me think twice. But after some more consideration I think it would be for the best.
There are some things that hold me back though from this. First of all, I was foolish enough as a youth to get my left arm covered in tattoos. Can opne become a memeber of a sangha with this? I have never seen a monk with tattoos popping out under their robes. I am worried it would give the wrong idea.
I am also worried about this as I am not a wise person. Venerable Bhikkus and Ajahans and sisters I have spoken to have being some of the wisest of the wise I have come across. I am nothing on them I really am not, and am worried my lack of ability to ever teach, or even be a good student would make this a problem.
Another thing that troubles me is my reason for wanting this. I would want to be a monk for more time to meditate and to shed all the things that don't matter in my life. I suppose I could just become a homeless person, so would I just be joining the Sanga for the relative comfort of a place to sleep and food twice a day? I don't know.
Thanks for listening to me guys, it being a really bad week for me, just smoked a cigar which I haven't done for two years, so forgive my waffling.
Metta,
Stream.
I am curious how one becomes a monk and enters a Sanga? How does one approach this vocation? I was interested in becoming without really knowing what it entailed. Joining with a Sangha twice for a few days made me think twice. But after some more consideration I think it would be for the best.
There are some things that hold me back though from this. First of all, I was foolish enough as a youth to get my left arm covered in tattoos. Can opne become a memeber of a sangha with this? I have never seen a monk with tattoos popping out under their robes. I am worried it would give the wrong idea.
I am also worried about this as I am not a wise person. Venerable Bhikkus and Ajahans and sisters I have spoken to have being some of the wisest of the wise I have come across. I am nothing on them I really am not, and am worried my lack of ability to ever teach, or even be a good student would make this a problem.
Another thing that troubles me is my reason for wanting this. I would want to be a monk for more time to meditate and to shed all the things that don't matter in my life. I suppose I could just become a homeless person, so would I just be joining the Sanga for the relative comfort of a place to sleep and food twice a day? I don't know.
Thanks for listening to me guys, it being a really bad week for me, just smoked a cigar which I haven't done for two years, so forgive my waffling.
Metta,
Stream.
0
Comments
Tattoos--I imagine it would depend on what you have tattooed on your arm.
And as for wisdom... you gain wisdom through practice. You don't join a sangha because you're already enlightened.
Life isn't just about [sitting] meditation, and Buddhadhamma isn't about escaping real life. Right now, you work and do what you have to do to survive. A homeless person doesn't have "all the time in the world to meditate" either, maybe even less, because they have to concern themselves with finding a way to survive day-to-day. Within a sangha, you still have responsbilities, and contribute in various ways... it's not just all meditation, free food and a place to sleep.
Practising Dhamma WITH all the distractions, DESPITE distractions, is true success. Living in meditation, whether it be doing chores, working at your pc, whatever, is true success.
I see you are from portsmouth if you put buddhist centre in porstmouth in google you will find few adress ( sorry if i cant be more precise i am not from there lol )
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=e4B&q=buddhist+center+in+portsmouth&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=
you could also look some introduction material into budhism on the web before going any further to see if it sounds right to you . there are a lot of info availaible.
Hi Mundus,
I have a half finished japanese sleeve on my left arm. Its Koi Karp and Lotus flowers and waves and stuff like that, nothing offensive. I do have quite alot of scars aswell though.
I do realise theres hard work to do within a Sangha as well as mediation and alms, and think it would really help me focus actually. So I would happy to do that.
I don't deal well with distractions, and have alot in my life, with anti-social neighbours playing music to people behaving like idiots in my area, its too distracting for me to practise properly and need to dedicate myself to the practise to do it properly.
Stream.
Hi Syrius,
Thanks for the link, I am allready doing this but its only once a fortnight. Its beneficial but I need more, thats why I'm interested in the leap into a Sangha, if its possible.
I see nothing wrong with this. Many others have ordained for far less noble reasons.
Your tattoos shouldn't be a problem. I have seen monastics with tattoos. There are even some monks in Thailand who work as tattoo artists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Ll-FSb-zk&feature=related
If you are seriously considering ordaining, I would recommend talking to monastics about it, and doing some longer retreats first.
That's life. Buddhism isn't about escaping life, but about living in peace despite it. If you need peace and quiet, you can buy some ear plugs, or visit a sangha a few times a week. Nothing is a distraction unless you let it be. Ultimately, if you can't meditate with all the everyday bs in the background, despite the noise and things that are distracting you, then you can't meditate, period. Meditation needs to be carried into every moment of your life as well... it's not just about sitting.
Of course you can ordain if you want, and for some people it's the right choice, but you seem hesitant and unsure in a lot of ways.
Seconded.
take it easy do not rush as you will get exhausted too quickly and give up ... it is better to move slowly so you have a firm foundation. if you want to get more out of your learning why dont you appraoch your teacher and ask them !
i recomand you a book fro you change your mind form pamandara , which is very good.
ttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Change-Your-Mind-Practical-Meditation/dp/1899579753/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260561890&sr=8-1
Mundus,
I am happy you manage to deal with these distractions so well and I'm sure your a great meditator. I however can't. I don't necessarily think that just because I don't, however, means I can't meditate at all. ITs not just seeking an end to the distractions why I'm wanting to join a Monastery, I really feel I could use the support and advice of a Sangha full time in my practise. I want to be some one worthwhile, In my opinion monks and nuns are some of the most worthwhile people on the planet. Just my opinion.
My comments have been in response to this ^. I and others are simply suggesting you talk to a teacher, and try out lengthier retreats before committing to something like this. In my humble opinion, it sounds like you may not understand what full ordination means and what meditation is. You asked for opinions and advice, I apologize if I did not say what you wanted to hear.
Meditation is about learning to deal with distractions. It's a process. I didn't say I was enlightened, I didn't say I never get distracted. But when people feel that the distractions are external, they are missing the point. If you don't understand that key point, you could be in the middle of a beautiful, peaceful forest, no responsibilities, the chance to meditate all day every day... and you will still find distractions, you will still find you're "unable to meditate."
I'm not saying don't ordain, I'm not saying such disciplined, dedicated practice isn't beneficial. But if you don't know what you're getting into and have false expectations, it will only complicate your life further. I'm saying, rather, to take it slowly and test the waters by going to some retreats before quitting your job, selling your house, your belongings, giving up your life...
I apologize if this advice upsets you. I did not mean for it to.
This would be one of the false preconceptions I was talking about. There are certainly amazingly wonderful monks/nuns. There are some terrible ones as well. Wearing a robe doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of "worthwhile" people in all walks of life. The Dhamma is everywhere if you pay attention.
Mundus,
I'm sorry you think I have misunderstood ordination,meditation and Buddhism in general. Perhaps I have, I only have my understanding of things, and I can't really say if they are right or wrong.
Theres no need to be sorry, I do appreciate your advice.
While I appreciate your concern, the truth is I don't have a great deal to give up anyway. Not saying thats any more reason to join a monastery, as it might betray wrong intention. I however don't think this is true.
I lost my job last year in the recession, and live in a crummy little flat in a poor area and I'm surrounded by drunks and drug users. I'm not sure if you have ever had this experience, but perhaps it would be a good test of how you would react to these particular distractions that I experience in my life.
Metta
Regarding tatoos, I have seen a few Western monks with tatoos. Please note, if one is a Theravadin monk then the arms are not visible when dressing for outside the monastery. The arm is only visible when within the monastery.
Regarding thinking one is not suitable for teaching, not all monks are suitable for teaching and not all monks teach. However, teaching is something learned through practise so one can become a good teacher.
I used to meditate alot in a monastery as a layman. One day I was asked to give some teachings to some visitors and, thinking back, what I spoke was laughable. Like dumb & mute. :crazy: But the more one tries, the more one learns to articulate both the teachings and one's own experience. Generally, Western monks will encourage, support and help eachother regarding teaching.
But meditation & the renunciate life is a main reason for ordaining. There are many happy monks who a drivellers regarding being able to teach or articulate the Dhamma.
Kind regards
:smilec:
I offer you my humble opinion. I wish it helps...
Both the householders and monastics have important roles to play in the Buddhist community. The householders provide the monastics with food, shelter, clothes, and medicine. Without these provisions, the monastics won't survive - there's no forests with plenty of fruits, herbs, and stuff - like ancient India. In Buddhism, a human birth is regarded as the most precious for purposes of striving for enlightenment. Monastics don't help here either
In my opinion, both the householders and monastics play 'worthwhile" roles.... and neither of them is more worthwhile than the other. In the end we must choose what is best for us.
Take your time to think things out. We all have been wandering in samsara for so many eons already... so spending a few more months to think things over will not hurt. Whatever path you choose... I wish you success.
With kind regards,
My life has been and is very, very far from ideal in many ways and I'm tested in ways you probably can't imagine on a daily basis. The details are unimportant but don't think my words are a result of not having dealt with my fair share over the years, of things like you describe and perhaps even worse. Don't take what I've said in this Thread personally, understand that what I've said is out of concern that you are getting into something with false expectations and could very well end up worse off, and consider what I said. It was you who expressed hesitancy and doubt; I only responded to it.
I sincerely wish you good luck with whatever you choose.
I would love to hear how to actually become a monk, how the process works etc.
After practice in a sangha you might come to see this differently.
In any event:
As has been pointed out, you should find a sangha you're interested in, and approach the head of the sangha to discuss this with them. They will be able to tell you how the process works, what it would mean to choose this life, and offer you their advice; this is how you go about becoming a monk.
Making a positive change for the sake of our development is a noble thing. It can be joyful and it can be terrifying. Whatever you do, as long as you remain safe and healthy, you will be okay. Make wise use of your time, as it goes quickly.
~ AD
Thank you. Your words ring true to me and this is the kind of encouragement I was hoping for. If I am a tree, my soil is poisened.
Friend tattoos shouldnt matter, why should they mind matters :cool:
Take it slow matey get to know them first before you dive head first into it remember the life of a monk entails alot of vows have a read of those before you walk toward.
Dont worry wisdom comes with practise friend.
Stream, I see no impediment to becoming a monk with tattoos. Why would that matter? They're just as impermanent as our bodies. They're not important. And for what it's worth, I got a Dharma tattoo just a few years ago, after I'd been a monk for over 10 years! With my teacher's approval. It's what's in your heart that matters, not what's on your skin (or what color your skin is either).
I don't know what school of Buddhism you follow, but for me being a monk doesn't mean having lots of time to spend meditating and contemplating. In fact, I'm busier now than I ever have been as I need to work to support myself (no Vatican bank to support us!), help cover the liturgical calendar at the temple, help run the place by taking care of several websites and blogs as well as other duties, taking part in our 24 hour prayer vigil (now in its 25th year), and oh yeah, fitting in some practice here and there as I can! Now I'm also being asked to engage the twitterverse as well... So being a monk doesn't necessarily mean cloistered!
Palzang
Here are some things you might be interested in. Rules for monks in Theravada: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/vin/sv/bhikkhu-pati.html
Something from a Tibetan (mahayana/vajrayana) school: http://www.fpmt.org/IMI/firstletter.asp
Interview with a monk on why he become a monk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN4UHDc4_hQ
The best thing for you to do is speak to a monastery. Find out your options and get adivce from the horses mouth, so to speak.
I think the nearest theravadan monastery near you is Chithurst. http://www.cittaviveka.org/ Why not drop them a line.
Good luck in what ever you decide to do.
Nios.