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a girl
i've been corresponding with this one girl by facebook messages which is basically like email. she's really cool. and i like talking to her. but i can't help desiring her. she is simply the coolest girl i know. she lives in japan and she's visiting for a couple weeks. i won't meet her because i'm on house arrest right now, but i was wondering. if, hypothetically, i COULD meet her, how would i keep myself from desiring her? when i write messages to her it is easy for me to kindof meditate a little or otherwise get rid of desires that have to do with her, but i would imagine this would be more difficult in person, especially since she's beautiful. should i just avoid meeting beautiful girls?? i don't know if i could converse with a beautiful girl without desires arising.
is there any advice you can offer me? i know i need to study and practice buddha's teachings more in general, to be more in control of my desires. but i was wondering if there was any common advice particular to this situation.
thank you
is there any advice you can offer me? i know i need to study and practice buddha's teachings more in general, to be more in control of my desires. but i was wondering if there was any common advice particular to this situation.
thank you
0
Comments
The Buddhist way is to stop the struggle with the feeling. If you believe you need to conquer your desire, you will set up suffering. If you tell yourself "you must possess her", "you must have sex with her", "you must conquer her", you are going to struggle.
If you become aware of what your mind tells you that sets up these scenarios, that is awareness to some degree. To allow room for the desire, and not act out of it, is a little more awareness. To understand how you set yourself up for the struggle, to come to the understanding that it is not driving your life or your behavior, and to learn where the desire or craving comes from is still more awareness.
There are some techniques that can actually stop you from fantasizing when you start feeling the illusion of having sex or feeling desire begin to take you away from the moment. Some young Buddhist Monks used to picture the object of their desire with their skin peeled away and picturing guts, muscle and all of these elements rather than tantalizing pictures. It does stop fantasizing in its tracks.
The Buddhist way takes a lot of learning and time. These approaches I am talking about, are short cuts and ones that have found useful as a novice myself.
Trying to defeat desires by sheer force of will, is not the Buddhist way. That I clearly see in your original post.
Best of luck with everything.
Namaste
Wake up, go to starbuck and buy a cup of coffee.
Every single one of us desires something. Some of us can’t keep our hands off of the donuts. ; ^ )
The thing about resisting sex, and thoughts about sex, is that it is tantalizing to resist sex, or its own kind of pleasure, and so it only cranks things up. (A form of foreplay).
Best to get busy with other things, and figure out in a quieter moment why you unsatisfied. I bet it isn’t JUST a sex thing. For instance, you may be lonely. After a while you understandings and needs will grow more subtle.
Peace,
S9
In hinduism you get rid of desire by EXPERIENCING it, BUT with the knowledge and intent you are experiencing things so that you will no longer desire it.
I believe that there are many different levels of understanding, when we deal with anything, including desires.
In the beginning, we usually notice those things that we ‘over due’ like engaging in anger, or our addicted to French fries with chocolate sauce.
We wish to stop desiring these obviously ‘no/no-s’ because they infringe directly upon our happiness, and well-being, sooner or later. With anger we have fewer friends, maybe a black eye, or we even stump out and quit a job that we greatly needed.
Getting rid of even these are not easy, and we only slowly become acquainted with such things as habits and cravings over long hours of attention and persistent vigilence to details.
However this enterprise also makes us more sensitive to what is going on in our body and in our head both emotionally and intellectually in conjunction with these bad habits or desires. So that even after some success...
This new found sensitivity points out, in vivid technocolor, our next more subtle problems to be dealt with, which because of our previous insensitivity, up until now, had 'gotten a pass' and and gone unnoticed.
Now we begin to eliminate these also, but fortunately with a new found confidence that we are capable of self-directed change, or new hope for an increase in happiness.
This is a spiral of learning and effort that is a little bit like house cleaning. (Our life being that house) When we remove the heavy dirt, we only then begin to notice the dust when it lights on something, way before it accumulates into dirt again. (It is always easier if you catch things early, like beginning to get annoyed before anger, and anger before full-blown rage,in order to control them.)
Eventually, however, we do get to a point where we study desire directly, and not just “desire 'Of What'.” We ask, “Is it desire, itself, that is the problem, more so than the “Of What?” And even more directly, “What is desire? Where does desire come from, and why?” Or even, “Is desire necessary on some level?”
Lastly: "Is this desire me, or any part of me?"
Understanding and implementing desire into its rightful slot is a skill, often hard won.
Peace,
S9
i think i should exist in a more meditative state. i don't need to think about this girl.
i have a question. clearly, not everyone is a buddha. how can i be compassionate to people knowing that it will create an attachment in them? i mean, if i am compassionate, others will desire to interact with me. and i can be compassionate and give them what they desire, but would that not be just feeding a cycle of desire within the other person, and thus making them suffer?
A
Thank you my newfound friend.
S9
I think personally where the difference lies is, knowing more than you may care to admit to yourself.
What if, you know this person is not "the person" for you, but you still find yourself attracted to her/him. Then it would be a struggle with desire / lust and many of the aforementioned suggestions should apply.
HOWEVER, for all you know, this person could be more than that, and I don't think it would be bad to analyse or even accept "the senses" that you do. Is this a wrong perception of Buddhism, if one thinks likes this ??
There was a very intereting article on the internet, that talks about the many aspects of sexuality / desires. It's quite interesting.
oOMUNDUS wrote in another topic something that could be relevant here:
Is that not a perfect example of how cravings lead to dukkha? In fact, that is the whole point.
You make it sound like the Buddha taught to "deny all your cravings." In reality, he taught to deal with and eliminate the craving itself, which is in your mind.
If you're being mean to others over not getting candy, then I would work on that before anything else.
Best of luck.
Sorry if I appear rather cynical, but desire over the internet is just pure fantasy - and its worthwhile remembering that some people might use other people's photos in internet communications with the opposite sex, as well as try to communicate in the way that they think will be best received and that will intrigue the other person.
I have a friend who met up with a couple of strangers from an internet site - with rather disappointing and negative results ...so its best not to get swept away on a tide of speculation and fantasy.
To help overcome sexual lust, there are some techniques here:
http://www.arrowriver.ca/dhamma/body.html
Kind wishes,
Dazzle
Thank you so much for that link. Meditation for the repulsive. It is very effective and will definitely take the edge off your lust. It is the approach I searched for when I described it so poorly.
Namaste
Have a good holiday.
However not meeting people (avoiding beautiful girls - a subjective matter anyhow) sounds forced and like Allbuddha said: "Trying to defeat desires by sheer force of will, is not the Buddhist way".
However, reading your initial post it sounded as though you might like her really as a friend or more, so being able to not desire her in some ways would be a great achievement. Meeting her sometime and being a able to compose yourself in the same manner (or other girls for that matter) would be just as respectable, although maybe not just as easy.
Best of Luck.
Dazzle, it IS pure fantasy, that's why it's so annoying.
My problem has been subsiding somewhat, thanks all for you help/advice.
Your heart beats without you telling it to.
Why assume that anything, including thought, occurs because you tell it to?
The problem is not desire. Desire is natural, it happens, it has happened to everyone here, and it will happen again. The problem is CLINGING to desire. Acknowledge it, accept it, then let it be on its way. Once the thought/desire has happened, let it go; it has already happened so it doesn't exist anymore.
Thoughts, feelings, emotion, and desire are all things that come and go, and are a natural part of life. To me, clinging means participating in the illusion of ownership, believing that you "own these thoughts" or "are these thoughts".
It's not about supressing thoughts and feeling, becoming cold and stone-like. It's about realizing what is here and what has always been. Just watch yourself, your words, your action, your thoughts, everything. Watch yourself all the time and you will see it.
And when you do, you'll slap your head and say "Ahhh yes, it was right there all along!"
***NOTE*** I am not a buddhist, this is just my 2 cents. So these aren't "official buddhist" views
Thank you guys, and thanks buddha!
If on hearing a fine piece of wisdom, (as you have just written, or from anyone), if a person were to say “Is this BUDDHIST wisdom” b/4 accepting it, than it is their loss, and they would be Buddhist bound, or have made Buddhism an obstacle which imprisons them, instead of a vehicle to travel in towards both wisdom and Liberation. We MUST remain receptive.
With any amount of clarity at/all, you begin to notice that what passes for our life, and our so-called will is pretty much automatic…”Look ma, no hands.” This is the “why” that everything doesn’t simply stop when we no longer identify with these thoughts and actions, or even this body and mind. This is the secret of Wu Wei.
When you see clearly that these things are not you, you also realize that up until this point you have really been working very hard to hang onto these misconceptions, and to your very detriment.
What a relief to simply “let go.” : ^ )
S9
Some of the mechanics are the same. A person feels they need to indulge in something to make the pain go away. Drugs, alcohol, sex or whatever may be considered the short term solution.
In some ways, is the body not being told how to react by the mind subconsciously? Sometimes it takes more than a "slap to the head" or common sense to overcome it. And then there is the part the body plays in physical addiction. A person in DTs is an example. The mind/body interplay can be more complex than that.
Addictions of any kind should always be taken serious, but keeping matters in perspective is just as important. Questionful will know what applies the most, just saying "overthinking" is also something to be careful about. That way you can keep a balance and find out where, on the scale between these too, you find yourself.
Best of Luck!
I think that both you and AD may have fallen under the spell of the propoganda about the word "addiction," which has “awfulized” it, to such a big extent.
How many people are addicted to their morning coffee? ; ^ )
I think that sometimes a young person can be addicted in minor ways to their passions. They just haven’t grown tired of all of the noise that comes with the passions, nor often too, all of the negative pain that accompanies it.
Many a marriage has been destroyed by these small cravings after the perfect this, or the perfect that in our mate. Most of these are unrealistic.
Many friendships have been left behind, because our expectations are inordinately high. We may want to be fully understood by another (a proof of love), when the fact is that we little understand ourselves and are changing daily. Too often, truth be told, we are looking for our own twin, our own perfect self, in another. We feel isolated by difference.
They tell us that 90% of our life is lived unconsciously, or goes unnoticed in any real detail. In a situation such as that, I don’t believe that “over thinking” is the problem. Do you?
Buddha cautioned us to look closer at our lives, so that we might live more skillfully, and in this way avoid some of that suffering. I don’t believe he thought that the small stuff was okay to let slide, until we fixed the big stuff first. Actually it is the other way around.
Start with the small stuff and work up, growing stronger and wiser as you go.
S9,
Avoiding creating the environment for the seed to flourish will not destroy the seed. Watch your mind, observe the thoughts and feelings you are experiencing, but don't become them, be the ever-observing presence of your mind. Don't judge the thought, for to do so is to allow your mind to once again take over and the witnessing presence is gone. The attraction between man and woman is not something to be ashamed of, it is the mind dominance that creates the dysfunction in relationships. I might consider not attempting to emulate the actions of an enlightened person, simply become enlightened and see how your actions have changed.
Although I understand what u are trying to say, I feel you judge me a little too fast, I mean know addiction can also have a moderate/modest meaning, but as you will find Allbuddha bound spoke of: Drugs, alcohol, sex or whatever may be considered the short term solution, that refers to BIG addiction in my book, and it's not fair to put them in the same group.
You yourself made a clear distiction of big & small stuff: ... so why can't I do the same? However you claim both should be addressed, and whislt I do I agree; there's no need to bring an army to handle a single bully, is there? (pardon for the analogy there...;)).
I feel Marmalde's words say it best here:
Please correct me if I am wrong Subjectivity9, but I was certainly not saying we should let things slide... by over-thinking I meant, over-responding to a situation. Let the desire be acknowledged, accepted and be dealt with in an appropriate matter. If not enough, increase the response (more meditation f.e.) and if the problem keeps persisting... if it really is becoming a serious addiction, then address it to full capacity.
Please forgive me if I made you feel defensive. That certainly wasn’t my intention. When I judge concepts, I do not go on to judge the person holding the concepts, perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. : ^ )
I think the place where we actually differ, (am I wrong?), is that you feel that small problems call for small solutions, or minor actions. I feel that we SHOULD call in ALL of our resources on the tiniest of problems.
My reason goes like this. Minor problems are very often only the tip f the iceberg, and if we come at them with everything we have, before they have a chance to grown visibly large, we have a better chance of getting to the very root of those problems, instead of always just cleaning up the dead bodies (on the surface) at a later date.
I have no doubt that you realize that addiction is a number line, and not just one thing. You would have had to been "living under a rock" and also blind and deaf, not to have noticed.
; ^ )
When we awfulize a word like "addiction," unfortunately we also add emotion to what we know intellectually, and make it seem a whole other animal/word. So, we are apt not to take small stuff seriously enough.
Warm Regards,
S9
That's cool, we're all on the same side aren't we
I think we agree in part, and will have to agree to disagree on some other
What you say here, can be true, hence my previous comment. Still this is not always going to be the case, and that's where my fear lies. So stimulating self-analysis would have priority imho.
Also, the thing is that I suspect questionful to be a "young soul"
I too want to learn from others, as I hope others will be able to do the same from me, so I'll look forward to that!
Warm regards right back @ ya S9
Hank777
Yes, we are all on the same side. Thank you for you kind words. : ^ )
I can easily understand your propensity to protect another from words, which you feel that they may not be ready to hear. But, what I have found to be true in my own life was that, I only hear what I (for one reason or another) was capable of hearing.
Quote: “For he who has ears to hear.”
Otherwise what was being said might just as well be spoken in a foreign language, one of which I didn’t speak or understand.
I have a wise friend, who has often come upon a wisdom, or two, just before myself, and tried to share these with me. I can remember more than once thinking, “Oh, give me a big old break.” Only to come to realize some 6 months later, or so, that he was sooo right. But, he had planted the seed, if you will. (Cracked my shell.)
Often our ego self wants to be the guy who is right, not that other guy. Lets face it, it feels good to be in the know. ; ^ )
But, it is also a blessing to be told where we are wrong, and break the chain that binds.
I usually go on my own gut level instinct, when I speak to another. I feel that who they are and what they say, draws my answers out of me. (I am confident in my own good will.) I trust myself in this, as I imagine you do, yourself.
I am not certain that we can (nor is it profitable) to second-guessing what other people should, or should not, be saying. Nor, for that matter, is it up to us, what other people should be hearing. This is far too much responsibility for one person, my friend.
Peace,
S9