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veganism
i'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this topic, but i feel like making a fresh one because i have some specific questions to ask. right now i'm vegetarian and considering transitioning to veganism, but maybe just something inbetween. i know that the animal food industry is very corrupt and lots of animals suffer due to it, and so i definitely do not want to contribute to that, to any company that treats its animals improperly. but, even farms that are known for treating their animals well, how do i know that they aren't still infringing upon the animal's well-being and feedom even though relatively they may be treating them kindly? i no longer have any interest in eating meat, but i really enjoy cheese, milk and other dairy products, and i suppose eggs too. i live with my family who has three chickens who produce a lot of eggs though! BUT, i've read that eggs draw negative karma. what is the meaning of this? does this mean they constipate my body in some way that may in effect afflict my mind? what is the actual constitution of an egg that plops out of a chicken? that's not a living chicklet is it? ha ha sorry, i'm asking a lot of questions but i'm just confused. maybe i can go read some vegan books but i feel like asking on here will be helpful. what are your thoughts on vegan diets and remaining completely loyal to one, rather than being somewhere inbetween a vegan and vegetarian?
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Comments
It's an unfertilized egg.
"Eggs draw negative kamma" - just forget about silly things like this and use common sense. You live on a farm and can ensure your chickens are treated properly. They will lay eggs whether you eat the eggs or not. Not eating them is wasteful. To me, not eating them is getting hung up on attachments.
It's near impossible to live strictly as a vegan; nearly everything has animal byproducts these days, and you have to really do your research.
I'm just assuming, but it sounds like you're still living with your parents. You will have to have their full support, unless you start buying your own groceries and cooking your own meals. If the situation is that you live with your parents, then discuss it with them, offer to help with shopping and maybe cook a few vegan meals a week for the entire family (maybe convince them this is a GOOD offer by cooking them a really nice vegan meal without mentioning it's vegan before bringing it up
Also, speak to a nutritionist. Meat provides a lot of nutrients that are necessary for your body. You can get them elsewhere, but you need to know how to do so properly. A lot of people want to go vegan and simply cut meat out of their diet without making any other changes... not healthy. You're going to probably have to expand your palette and learn to cook veggies properly (to get the most nutrients out of your meals).
if they were "in the wild" they would be eaten in no time.
you are in a sense protecting them. as a dharma practitioner you have access to methods that can benefit them and help them attain a more fortunate rebirth.
Perversely, our cows, pigs and chickens would not even be born if there were no market from them.
On the flip side, if you buy those products in a supermarket you create the market and have therefore a direct responsibility for their slaughter.
Honesty should be the first principle, and I can't abide that creepy excuse used by clerics that it's OK to eat meat etc. if it was not 'killed for you'. Even centuries ago, poor villagers probably thought giving the monks meat was a pathway to a Pure Land. You eat it, you created the cause for the killing.
It is very easy to eat as a vegan these days - so many other sources of protein and other essential nutrients are available. Even in the deserts of Rajasthan, the Jains have thrived as vegans for many centuries.
One point to watch, which most pharmacists are also unaware of, is that medicines frequently contain such things as gelatine and cochineal. Even tablets may have gelatine in them. Always check the leaflet before accepting the medicine. And don't trust the pharmacists - they focus on the 'active ingredient', not the 'excipients' (other ingredients).
I know there is an argument which is frequently batted from one post to another about whether it is 'Buddhist' to be vegetarian.
Personally, I don't mind either way - I would still act that way. Unlike eating a vegan diet (where beings are killed by accident in ploughing etc) if we eat mammals and fish we have knowingly caused their death. I believe that I should not deliberately cause death and should seek to exercise compassion for other beings. Eating is one way I can directly have an influence by exercising choice. I also recognise that I am damn lucky to have that choice - many do not and face an 'eat this or die' situation.
These days we also have the ecological argument which is simple - it takes less vegetation to feed a human directly than if it is converted into meat, poultry etc. But you have to be careful - buying soya which has been grown by chopping down rainforest habitat ain't very much in tune with 'not harming' or 'ahimsa'.
I was veggie and then vegan for a long time but then started having some digestion/intolerance problems and began eating meat again as there were too many things I was having to avoid. So that my personal situation and context to what I have to say on an intellectual level before I actually get into it.
It may be that I've developed an intellectual stance to accommodate my own needs.
Firstly death is a part of life. Without death there is no life. In nature death is food and the food chain is an intrinsic element of the planet. I therefore think that eating meat is part of this process. Yes in western societies this is taken to an abjhorrent extreme with people consuming far too much meat. We should have a healthier relationship with meat in terms of the amount we consume. But essentially I do see it as an inherently natural process.
You may argue that humans do not need meat to survive. I think in many situations this is the case, but not for all people. To exclude certain foods is to be in a very privileged position. there are many people around the world eating a predominantly veggie or vegan diet, not by choice, but becuase its all they have access to.
In terms of suffering, yes, death does cause suffering- but again this is an essential part of life. All death causes suffering whether its for food, shoes or just due to old age or illness. I am not sure its useful to start to think of degrees of death which are more or less abhorrent than others.
Again though when industry becomes involved these issues are less clear. I try to use meat that is ethically produced, and avoid over-farmed fish etc. As the world's population increases there will be mroe and more pressure on food production to be more sustainable and efficient which will likely lead to mroe use of vegetables and grains etc as their use of land and energy is more efficient in terms of the nutrient output.
I don't think its a simple issue of killing animals for food makes the animals suffer and Buddhists are against suffering so therefore I should be vegan. there is much more to it. I alos think there is a danger of attachment to ideas: what a Buddhist is meant to be etc. how can you avoid suffering in a world which inherently produces suffering? How can we shy away from death when death is the only certainly for all our lives whether animal or human?
I also don't see karma as being so prescriptive that to eat meat is to automatically acquire bad karma. I see karma as being mroe an issue of understanding how you affect the world and taking responsibility for that. for myself I need to eat to live. I will eat some meat and accept that that involves death but I take responsibility for doing my best to ensure I know where it comes from and how it is produced.
the idea of karma itself can be an attachment. I musnt't do this, I mustn't do that because of karma. Karma is not the 10 commandments.
If you do go vegan make sure you research what you need nutrition wise and how you can meet those needs. Eat lots of seeds, nuts and grains and make sure your diet is varied! And good luck.
may be a bit dramatic but it does the trick for me.
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This is true. My grandmother lived, for several years, with a farmer. Thus I spent a lot of time on a farm and even handled quite a few eggs myself (he grew crops for his livelihood, but he kept a few chickens to produce eggs for his own use, sold the excess to a local market).
I would agree with this.
From your posts it sounds like you live on a farm, that your parents are farmers? Is this correct? If so these chickens will still be in their situation regardless of if you eat their eggs or not. I don't think you personally really have anything to worry about karma-wise.
But I eat meat, so take my comments for whatever they're worth to you.
The bottom line is, make your choice.
Be comfortable with it.
There is no need for defensiveness if you are comfortable with that.
Do whatever you truly have come to see as being right for you.
We can talk about the rights wrongs, wisdom, folly and all the different aspects of being an omnivore/carnivore/herbivore, but ultimately, it's all down to the individual.
This is making me really sad!:(
is says on the bible that animals are supposed to be eaten. the BIBLE!!!
mind you its not a bad a thing. all the more animals for me!!!
and with that, I run away... run away... (besides thought it was buddhism's advanced ideas section, what about the bible?)
I think you'll find most Buddhists don't give a hoot about what it says in the Bible.
It's not our kind of reading, but thanks anyway!
Moved.