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What is the minimum to take into the next life?

edited December 2009 in Buddhism Basics
What can I achieve in this lifetime that is so significant that it can carry into the next lifetime?

Having a goal smaller than Nirvana or Diamond-Body would be very motivating.

Comments

  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Do you mean something you'll for-sure remember after you die and are reborn as something else? Why do you believe that's going to happen?
  • edited December 2009
    Hi Jago

    Welcome to the Forum.
    jago25_98 wrote: »
    What can I achieve in this lifetime that is so significant that it can carry into the next lifetime?

    As I see it, all your actions (kamma) "carries into" the next lifetime.
    Having a goal smaller than Nirvana or Diamond-Body would be very motivating


    First off, understand and accept the Four Noble Truths - you'll see it's all about overcoming (or reducing in the short term) of suffering (dukkha) by elimination (or gradual elimination in the short term) of craving or clinging.


    Don't set any goals such as "nirvana". Such expectation (craving) by itself is an obstruction to your practice. Nirvana will come in its own time.

    With kind regards.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Some people in this forum do not believe in the rebirth concept but it is mentioned there in many suttas so I don't see a justifiable reson for disapproving it.

    As for your question, the actions you do through words, mind or body all form karmic formations which you carry on throughout this cycle of births and deaths. You might see the effects of karma in this life, in your future lives etc.
  • edited December 2009
    Deshy wrote: »
    Some people in this forum do not believe in the rebirth concept but it is mentioned there in many suttas so I don't see a justifiable reson for disapproving it.

    In the Mahaparinibbana-Sutta, the Buddha is said to have addressed the monks as follows:
    ...... 'Monks, it is because of not understanding, not penetrating the four noble truths that both you and I have have run and wandered the round of rebirth in this way for such a long time. ....
    ...... once the noble truth of the practice to the cessation of suffering is understood and penetrated, then craving for existence is cut off, the conductor of existence is destroyed, and no longer is there rebirth.'

    And this from the Assu-Sutta:
    "From an inconstructable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating and wandering on...."

    It seems that the basic idea that there is a cycle of rebirth was not questioned by the Buddha's early disciples. Kamma and samsara (cycle of rebirths) were established concepts at the time of the Buddha and the Buddha's audience no doubt were more interested in the Buddha's teaching based on the four noble truths. Perhaps this is why the Buddha did not elaborate on the concept of samsara (cyclic rebirth).

    I must admit, though, that I am still quite ignorant about the "thing" that passes on from one being to another at rebirth. Sometimes, I see it as nothing more than the transmigration of one's kamma moving from one's old being at death to the new being at birth - much like the flame that passes from one candle to another.

    I would really appreciate if someone can point to specific suttas in the Pali Canon regarding the topic of rebirth - especially something that explains in greater detail how the transmigration takes place.

    And those who do not believe in the rebirth concept - perhaps you can quote the suttas that substantiates this concept.

    Let us learn together :)
  • ValtielValtiel Veteran
    edited December 2009
    Deshy,

    I am not sure why you decided to turn this into a rebirth debate. It was simply pointed out that kamma is here and now. The Buddha even explains this to his young child in the suttas.

    sukhita,

    you have to be careful because translators take a lot of liberties. "wandered the round of rebirth" is simply "samsara" and this does not contradict the interpretations of the people Deshy is discussing. Other times, the word "jati" (birth) is translated as "rebirth" despite the Buddha using the word in a non-literal way in the context of paticcasamuppada. [MN 38]
    "From an inconstructable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating and wandering on...."

    And this is a horrible example of a translator inserting his own bias into his translations. "Transmigration" is once again simply "samsara." Samsara is a word that should go untranslated.
    I would really appreciate if someone can point to specific suttas in the Pali Canon regarding the topic of rebirth - especially something that explains in greater detail how the transmigration takes place.

    There isn't one.
    And those who do not believe in the rebirth concept - perhaps you can quote the suttas that substantiates this concept.

    Well, I already showed that "rebirth" does not appear in the Highest Teaching (Dependent Origination) of the Buddha, but rather "birth" does, and linked to a sutta in which the Buddha explains "birth" in non-literal ways which is what truly binds one to samsara. The Buddha was free of samsara in his lifetime, he was at peace and attained Nibbana, yet still died just like anyone else, so it seems clear to me that he was never concerned with escape from literal birth/death (samsara). There are many instances in which the Buddha blatantly explains that his teachings are concerned with the birth/death of I/self/mind (self-identification), such as:
    "Monks, there are these six view-positions (ditthitthana). Which six? There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for men of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — assumes about form: 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.'

    [he continues through the other aggregates in the same fashion]

    -MN 22
    Which origination of self-identification is described by the Blessed One?"

    "The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This, friend Visakha, is the origination of self-identification described by the Blessed One."

    -MN 44
    People who are without the training in and knowledge of insight meditation hold the view that seeing belongs to or is "self," "ego," "living entity," or "person." They believe that "seeing is I," or "I am seeing," or "I am knowing." This kind of view or belief is called sakkaya-ditthi in Pali. Sakkaya means the group of materiality (rupa) and mentality (nama) as they exist distinctively. Ditthi means a wrong view or belief. The compound word sakkaya-ditthi means a wrong view or belief in self with regard to nama and rupa, which exist in reality.

    For greater clarity, we will explain further the manner of holding the wrong view or belief. At the moment of seeing, the things which actually exist are the eye, the visual object (both materiality), and seeing (mentality). Nama and rupa are reality, yet people hold the view that this group of elements is self, or ego, or a living entity. They consider that "seeing is I," or "that which is seen is I," or "I see my own body." Thus this mistaken view is taking the simple act of seeing to be self, which is sakkaya-ditthi, the wrong view of self.

    It is clear that the Buddha was discussing birth in this way. So even if one argues that he did teach literal rebirth, it remains that it's irrelevent to the core teachings, and one does not have to accept it to attain Nibbana. Rather than denying any form of literal rebirth, I'm simply agnostic on the subject, and unconcerned with it because it has no affect on my practice here and now. As has been pointed out before, belief in literal rebirth is described by the Buddha as Right View with effluents which leads to further becoming, rather than Noble Right View which leads to Nibbana. [MN 117]
  • edited December 2009
    sukhita wrote: »
    I must admit, though, that I am still quite ignorant about the "thing" that passes on from one being to another at rebirth.

    Let us learn together :)
    Buddhists don't like to use the word "soul" since it implies something permanent, but what buddhists believe is basically the equivalent of a soul. They believe that the subtle mind is not annihilated like the gross mind and travels from body to body. This mind is not permanent, its always under the process of change. Theradevic (or Mahayana, sorry I forgot) monks believe there are 3 layers of the mind, the gross mind, which is the least "real" and is dissolved when we are asleep, the subtle mind, and the very subtle mind. The very subtle mind is what is not annihilated upon death.

    But yeah it continues its existence due to karma, and I'm not sure about this one, and past desires.

    Buddhists state there is no self, but they DO NOT deny the existence of things metaphysical. For example, I think they believe the mind is a non physical entity. They also believe in "devas", which are god-births. I personally think the god-births are just births in a really comfortable position anywhere, like a king, etc.

    EDIT: I guess if you REALLY want to remember something you could become a ghost, they seem to remember a lot...
  • edited December 2009
    Hi Mundus...,
    ...you have to be careful because translators take a lot of liberties. "wandered the round of rebirth" is simply "samsara" and .....
    Yes, I'm beginning to notice this. Even some writers with the title "Bhikku" seem to be contradicting each other. :)
    Rather than denying any form of literal rebirth, I'm simply agnostic on the subject, and unconcerned with it because it has no affect on my practice here and now.
    I can see the wisdom in this as well.

    And thank you sincerely for the other clarifications as well. Be assured that the effort you put into your response has benefitted me.

    With kind regards.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited December 2009
    jago25_98 wrote: »
    What can I achieve in this lifetime that is so significant that it can carry into the next lifetime?

    Having a goal smaller than Nirvana or Diamond-Body would be very motivating.

    My teacher says that everything you do and think creates an imprint (karma), and that these imprints are all that move on to the next life. This applies to both the negative thoughts & actions we do, and to the positive thoughts & actions. Therefore, a goal smaller than achieving Nirvana is to do our Buddhism practice so that those imprints move on.
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