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Buddhism and Eating Disorders
AllbuddhaBound
Veteran
Eating disorders are extremely difficult to treat. I was wondering if there are people on this board who have experienced an eating disorder and found Buddhism effective in overcoming it.
Eating disorders are addictions that are extremely resistant to treatment of any kind.
Eating disorders are addictions that are extremely resistant to treatment of any kind.
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As far as meditation helping is concerned: At my best, some emotional disturbance arises, the desire to eat arises, I cultivate compassion for the desire, it releases, and then I can rationally judge whether to eat based on the physical experience of my digestive system rather than my emotional experience. It doesn't reliably develop this way, but it seems to happen more and more with time.
You are right, these addictions are hard to treat. Alcoholism runs in my family, so I am leery of it. Any time I start to notice a positive feedback loop developing in my relationship to alcohol, I just pour all the stuff I've been drinking down the sink. Can't do that with food, and the conditioning associated with food runs so deep (first developed preverbally) and is so strongly associated with such positive experiences... I have a similar problem with the internet, in that I need it for my work. Automation can really help for that, though. Similarly, in the past I have committed to following what I call "the Buddha diet": just eat one meal a day, the way monks do. That seems to work pretty well, despite it going against the advice for the treatment of reflux/hiatal hernia. But it only ever lasts a few months, because it's such a difficult practice to maintain, socially speaking.
Emotional eating is a problem many people can relate to. You must be in a great deal of pain with acid reflux/hiatal hernia. I experienced acid reflux fairly severely and it is only one wrong move on my part away from returning. Allergies must complicate things further.
As well as compassion for the desire, have you tried compassion for someone experiencing weight problems even more than yours? I know weight isn't an issue for you but just imagine the suffering that goes on for them day in and day out. Or if you may have said something negative about a person with weight problems, metta towards them can really stick in your mind.
I think you are bang on with the addictions comparison with eating disorders. There is this deep desire to be accepted that drives it I would say, and the pursuit of that acceptance becomes the drug.
With much of the dynamics of eating disorders being relationship driven, I wonder how metta meditation might enhance the situation. I was curious if an approach such as this had been tried by anyone.
Thanks for the responses.
Namaste
What's the practical intent here? To cultivate compassion generally?
I have found it to be effective alleviating the craving altogether. You feel more connected and it is easier to recall several times during the day. When I focus on my own suffering, I find it easier to forget or let it go.
They are actually diseases that are related severe mental illness and physical imbalance and are often accompanied by body-dismorphic disorder, which is characterized by psychosis.
meditation can help but only after hospitalization and a lot of therapy.
not only can this cultivate compassion but it can also be used as a method to modify our behavior.
if we have been insensitive to the suffering of someone and then genuinely contemplate their experience we will be much less likely to repeat the nasty thing we did.
Ive flirted with various treatments but found none of them really helped.
The thing is with eds in my experience is that they are not just a case of addiction or wanting to look like a model.
They are a complex mix of brain chemistry, events in peoples life, how they were taught to think and feel about themselves, how they deal with stress, pain, sadness etc .. how they interact with others ..
for instance - both sides of my family have a predisposition towards depression. My mother and father and several close family members suffered from it... and since i was a young child i was always prone to extreme moods - i was either very happy or very sad ... never at a level...
growing up i had to deal with a psycologically abusive alcholic mother who never made me feel loved... not eating was my way of controling the world or showing people i was in pain - since feelings were never discussed in my family or were used as a weapon to ridicule and hurt...
in a way - the foundations were already there in my brain chemistry - and my mental mother was the switch... would i have become anorexic without her ? i really think i would ... but i have a brother and a sister who arent affected in the same way. my sister was always very much the favorite and never had the verbal battering i got.. and so is very attention seeking but never suffered from depression...
my brother grew up seeing the worst of it - but was never a target - and he too suffers from extreme moods and has serious anger problems...
As for has buddhism helped ? yes... the techniches in buddhism , the though processes, understanding how our mind works, practising detachment and control... that has helped me greatly to understand what in my feelings is brain chemistry, what is true feelings and also how i can deal with those feelings without relapsing or harming myself...
i think in that way - buddhism is very effective. theres no psycobable - just simple techniques that work..
the techniques help me to stay calmer, and to recognise the source of my feelings- whatever they are...
i dont think ill ever be completely cured because i really believe there is something genetic going on that cant be over come - but buddhism does give me an understanding and control and a sense of peace that i dont think id have otherwise...
Thanks for your story. So as I understood, Buddhism has helped you understand what is going on internally to better prepare you for the ups and downs that accompany your ED?
Body dysmorphic disorder is differentiated from the eating disorders in the DSM IV. They are diagnosed comorbidly but it is not the norm.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1622894/
There are many outpatients dealing with eating disorders.
Thank you for your openness and honesty Channah. I agree that Buddhism has a number of common sense techniques that cut through jargon and go directly to the problems. Can you tell us what techniques have helped you? It sounds like you have had to overcome a number of challenges that can't be easy. You have much to teach.
First let me explain that in many ways eating disorders are quite selfish and solitary diseases. Your day is consumed with what you will or will not eat, how much you have gained or lossed, how you look, how you feel. A huge amount of time and effort is put into getting thinner, and then hiding the grey skin, skinny body. Making sure you can still peform to your own high standards at work , school etc..
on one level you know that your behaviour is both strange and dangerous and unhealthy. Any attempt by others to address your eating habits you meet with extreme hostility. At first you distance yourself from others to avoid the questions, and later because you just have neither the energy or desire to deal with anyone or anything outside of your disorder...
the world could end tomorrow and your first thought would be whether you would be able to find some scales to track your weight loss. Personal developement goes out the window... you dont care if you gain wisdom, or knowledge, - so long as you can loose weight...
In buddhism we are taught the exact opposite. In the classes i go to - one of the first things they taught us was on self importance. we were taught that when we have problems we become very self involved and loose sight of the true meaning for our exisitance.
because of our attachment to material things, we see even the smallest problems as the biggest in the world and forget almost instantly the greater suffering of others.
so in one meditation we were taught to repeat to ourselves '' i am not important'' whenever we feel overwhelmed by small problems. like being late for work, or being stuck in a queue etc.. we are taught almost to distance ourselves from our feelings ... to view ourselves from the outside and then to remember that there are many others who suffer much worse...
its this detachment - taking that moment to analyse and understand what im feeling and why im feeling it that seems to be the basis for most of the things ive learned in buddhism ...
ive learned to reason ... why is it so important for me to be thin? what will happen if i gain weight ?? why am i afraid of this ??
usually the reason for my fear is related to control or a desire to express myself in some way. So then we are taught that really nothing can be controlled, that this body isnt permanent, that NOTHING is permanant. -and that beating it half to death will acheive nothing but more pain...
i could go on for ever... but its really about getting to the bottom of my fear - and then understanding what is really causing it .. its about stepping out of the situation and underrstanding where i fit in in the world...
the lack of importance is ironically something that many people with eating disorders can relate to - but in a differant kind of way...
i think though - more than anything - its the control of the mind - and that few moments of calm thats most important. Understanding that im not totally at the mercy of my body or brain .. clearing my mind.. thinking of nothing ... learning to step back and out and to put things in perspective ...
thats what all buddhism teaches me ... to not be so self absorbed ...
i hope all that makes sense ?? its so difficult to properly explain in words... like i said - ill never be completely cured - but i do have much more control over HOW i think and HOW i understand the world...
a bad day at work now no longer always results in days of starvation to punish myself for not making the grade... its more likely to result in a few moments of thinking about why a i feel so attached to work that results ultimatly in money and status... why the opinions of others are so important to me ... what i really gain from that...
i hope that answers it ?? please feel free to ask more if you want...
that thought process, and understanding and analysing of what is and is not permanant and ultimatly of value and importance and WHY ... that to me has been the most usefully
Namaste
I have come to the point in my life where I see my body is not being me, and yet I at the same time I realize my responsibility towards it, to its protection and its health.
Sometimes little tricks can help you with your symptoms even if there may never really be a cure. Because maybe it isn’t actually about a cure, so much, but rather an ongoing effort towards balance and healthy living.
For instance, they say that many people misread the sensations of their body. Often times you are thirsty and misinterpret that to be hunger, (the feeling of thirst is actually very subtle). They people often don’t recognize thirst until they are a bit dehydrated. So if you have a nice big glass of cold water, and wait say 15-20 minutes, (get busy for a little while, don’t just watch the clock), you may discover that you were not really hungry at all.
Sometimes people’s body sugar isn’t that well regulated, and when your blood sugar gets low (3 to 4 hours after eating) you will crave something sweet. But, it only takes a few bites to relieve this feeling, (you will want to eat more) yet it does take about 20 minutes to register this in your brain.
When you take in any sugar, make sure that you also take in a little protein so as not to just start a cycle of highs and lows because of that sugar. Protein also has more staying power because it digests slower.
So, I guess what I am saying here is that you can outsmart yourself, and learn through close observation what works and what doesn’t. You don’t have to control this with brute force of will.
Sugar does definitely alter your mood, a quick fix, but so does music and exercise. Thus it may come back to training ourselves, not to go without, (this doesn’t work) but rather to get exactly what you want and need in other ways.
I have had trouble with food all of my life, just getting a little chunky at times. But, I never met a cookie I didn’t like. Believe me, it doesn’t have to be a drastic problem for people to start beating themselves up, over it. I had to stop that, too.
Warm Regards,
S9
My name is Katie and I'm 22, living in Australia. I have always been very spiritual, a devout Catholic, until my faith was shaken by the ludicrous hypocrisy of the Catholic Church. This led me to delve into the confusing and confronting depths of philosophy, existentialism and nihilism. I developed depression in my late teens and have attempted to take my own life a few times. I have endured sef-harm and severe anorexia nervosa, which has left me in hospitals for the most past of the last three years.
While in a hospital I was given a fact sheet on meditation and yoga. I borrowed a book from a therapist on Buddhism. From then on I feverishly devoured books and tapes on Buddhism. I found myself re-emerging from the ashes I had torched myself into. I was able to conceive a future, a life, a purpose. I was in control and worth something simply from 'being'.
I am still struggling with anorexia but am coming out of it. I am looking to the future and being present and mindful. I have regained the inquisitive nature of a child and look forward to continuing learning. Because with knowledge comes both power and wisdom.
I find comfort in the thought that I just need to "let go" and simply "be". I am worthy simply because I "am". If that makes sense. I have gone from a BMI of 12 to 15 now, When I struggle with thoughts of anorexia or depression I go outside look at the clouds or stars and feel the breeze. I am. I feel. Let go. My universe is all my perspective. Completely up to my control and my interpretation. How do I want to spend this moment?
This thread was exactly what I came on to find! Haha, thank you all. Namaste. Katie xoxo
Let me through this out ... about 20 years ago, I had a prof who was researching anorexia. He put out this theory: That it has a biologically-ingrained basis, connected to migration. He pointed out that when food sources get low, the population needs to move on until they find a locale where food sources are plentiful ... a biological imperative to put energy into moving, not searching for food.
He pointed out that WWII concentration camp victims did not suffer from anorexia, nor did volunteers who underwent similar diet restrictions. But that the combination of movement/exercize and undereating seems to trigger this anorexia response ... he pointed out that ballerinas were the occupation most likely to develop anorexia (extensive practice plus having to keep weight down).
I haven't followed his work to see if it gained acceptance, but I've always thought it was an interesting paradigm.
I would I guess not be able to advise much to other anorexics. We all have different paths which lead us into and out of very individual and personal experiances. I guess I would emphasise that "you are in control of what you do and how you choose to percieve everything. Nobody can force you to do or think anything. It's all you, just you. Your life, your choice."
Fivebells: Oh wow, thanks for the link! Why didn't I think of podcasts for meditation?! I will certainly be checking those out! I have just read Pema Chordon's books, she is wonderfully direct and has a very well explained philosophy. I guess I'm being a fearless warrior in my own right. Eating, gaining weight, not being in control... at first I felt groundless, like my foundation was crumbling beneith me. But then I realised I had tethered myself to the ground and now (as corny as it sounds) I can fly.
FoibulFull: You sound like you are refering to the Starvation syndrome they did, when starved men would exhibit "anorexic" fears and behaviours. But it is always up to debate... the chicken or the egg?
Thank you all again!
Allbuddha Bound,
Forgive me, but is it anorexia that you have (I haven't been sure if you're talking about yourself or just people with EDs in general)? Do you feel the reason is [mainly] psychological? What sort of thoughts go through your head prior to anorexic behaviour? For example, often the issue is a result of attachment to the body, superficial and unrealistic ideals, and what others think of us. Since the Buddha's teachings were concerned specifically with attachment and clinging, it has much to offer. Focusing on the anatta doctrine and examining the roots of the disorder, the thoughts and clinging that arise, is helpful, particularly when you get to a point where you can carry your meditation into daily life and apply it whenever the feelings arise.
No, not talking about myself. I am just interested in EDs and how they are manifested. I do feel there are often dynamics within families that contribute. One fairly common thread is often a perfectionistic, demanding parent. When you talk about attachment to the body, superficial ideals and the opinion are elements that appear to be there commonly, but what also appears to be there often is a problemed relationship with a primary caregiver. With feeling the need for control (alluded to by both Channah and Bodi), there are love/hate relationships where people have felt they never had any control, where they felt they could never be good enough, and they need some semblance of control. Some piece of themselves no one would ever control again. Perhaps one of the reasons they (EDs) are so persistant is that it requires delving into the most primitive need for acceptance by the one who is giving you life and sustenance. When this is thwarted, people must begin to ask the fundamental question am I loved, or am I unlovable. A question most people have never had to wonder. I am sure having those basics to ponder, making the journey much more difficult for sufferers and hence, the need for therapy as both Channah and Bodi have mentioned. Is Buddhism enough? Judging by the response by both, no, not by itself.
Namaste
Aughhh, sorry my bad, I just re-read your post and I guess I was more tired last night than I thought. You pose an interesting theory I must research, my dear.
I was going through some old diaries last night and found that there was something very spiritual about my anorexia.When you are severely starved, malnourished and whittled down to your barest bones. I felt like I was getting to my "core self". My most basic and raw and purest state. Does thatmake any sense to anyone else? It poses somewhat of a paradox doesn't it? Hahaha.
I can see why in the old days they would starve, you get into this state where you are almost skimming the surface of your consciousness. Not quite there emotionally, but physically present. It's rather bizzar, but I would call it a spiritual journey for me. Like Buddha I got within an inch of death and realised there was no need to torture myself. I was causing my own suffering, why not choose a more compassionate way of life? I was attatched to this body, for a temporary physical state. What for? Nothing real! My dimentions are not important when I can do so much more in this life. Cultivate a new personality and alter your universe!
In my way of seeing things, everything that everyone does is a part of their spiritual journey. There is no waste. We constantly stand upon the edge of ‘not knowing,’ and choose what we think will make us whole, or satisfied.
The dynamics of self-mutilation are very complex. But, don’t overlook the sensuality built into self-multation through starvation. I have even heard it said that, there are sexual components within it.
So gluttony and starvation are two twins, who just happened to take a different road to gratification.
So, what we need in this catch-22 type of situation, called life, is an overview. I can see that you have figured this out, yourself, so I won’t belabor it.
From this 'Middle Way' (balance) you become the orchestra leader of your own life, you call/dance to your own tune, and no longer let life’s vague and heartless ways bounce you around at whim.
It is ALL about perspective, Studying Now, and your ‘NOW YOU,' keeps you right where you have to be, both alert and vigilant.
Diaries are interesting, but they have roots in the past. What you want to do right now, I believe, is tear up those roots and start over every moment, fresh. You'll need all of your energies for this, to do it right.
That’s my 2 cents, anyway.
Warm Regards,
S9
I wasdiscussing with my mother yesterday actually (haha, although she tires of my philosopphical ramblings) how I would not change a moment of my life. I am who I am today because of my journey and hardships endured. It is so true that facing fears and struggles teach us invaluble lessons. They cultivate and strengthen our own abilities to feel compassion and empathy for others. Give us the resiliance and humbled nature to be opeen and see every person as a vulnerable child, all the same, but different. Both fallible and perfect... aughhhhhh I love these discoveries! I am so excited about my life and it's possibilities. Buddhism is amazing, I feel awake!
B: I am trying very much to be mindful and in the now, it is difficult.
S9: The mind is an instrument that needs to be trained. That is why Buddha called life a skill. Like any skill, proficiency doesn’t happen over night. But, if you love what you are doing, you won’t resent the time put into it. It will be fun.
Actually, you know, Buddhism is quite addicting, because it gives you what you need in spades. I think, judging from your words that, you have already tasted of this fine nourishment, and you are beginning to heal.
Pain is actually very addicting, too, as strange as that may seem. The body/mind would much rather hurt physically/mentally than to feel nothing…boredom (and depression that can follow) is a form of stimulation deprivation. This is why we must be certain, at all costs, to stay stimulated in a good way, or old habits will choose for us what kind of stimulation enters our life. Don't allow the newness to wear off in your practice, by keeping it ever fresh.
I bet you know most of this. But, I just thought I would say this, just in case. : ^ )
Yes, indeed, you are all that you will ever need, and so much more that you are in for surprise after surprise as you walk this path, and continue to blossom.
Q: Joseph Campbell, “Follow your bliss.”
Stay well,
S9
For example, in the world of an active ED, we can picture a healthy and fulfilling life but the pain (such as a feeling of low self esteem) occurs and then we can turn to habits that help us to avoid having to deal with the pain.
People often spend their lives rapped up in never answering questions they find too painful.
A technique that involves mindfulness, acceptance and clear life directions can be explained by a metaphor of a school bus.
Lets say a person is driving this bus and has a good idea of where they want the bus to go, but the passengers on the bus become unruly (the passengers are thoughts or beliefs, emotions, habits, memories and physical sensations). Every time the bus driver decides to get going in the direction they want, one of the passengers begins to raise a stink. The bus driver intends to get where they want but every time they head there, let's say fear suddenly appears. The bus driver may have tried to expel fear from the bus but every time they are starting to head back in the way they wanted to, there it is again. Hijacking the bus and taking it in a different direction. After a while, the driver learns to give up and every time fear pops up, the driver dutifully steers the bus in that direction in the way fear wants them to go. This can be quite reinforcing to something as ego driven as fear.
As long as that driver permits fear to dictate the direction of things, nothing will change. The same can be said for anger, beliefs (such as prejudice), habit, or even physical pain.
The key to changing in this instance, is acceptance. Rather than try to force the passengers to change, the driver needs to be with them (embrace them if you like). Take the fear or pain with you but remain steadfast. The decision has been made, you are heading towards the life you have in mind. The struggle is over.
I wish I had thought of that but it was developed by Stephen Hayes and is incorporated into a type of therapy called Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT). It is really a beautiful metaphor for the things that hold us back and how to cope with them.
Perhaps we should think on the difference between pain and suffering. : ^ )
Pain isn’t actually the enemy. Pain is a nature signally system within our body and our mind, which tells us that something isn’t right/isn’t healthy/is out of whack. So, we should listen to pain, and even follow it to it source or roots, and thereby eliminate it, if possible.
Meditation/mindfulness is probably one of the best way in the world for doing just that, (both studying and eliminating unnecessary pain or suffering), especially if it isn’t something that actually calls for a more physical intervention such as surgery, or setting a bone, or maybe even insulin, lets say. This is because meditation has the capacity to skim off the suffering (the froth) that we have doubly caused through our needlessly stirring things up emotionally.
(We add the dragons of fear and anger to this mix, possibly out of habitual and wrongful notions, and a lack of close examination on our part.)
With meditation, we can take a step back from the pain, and objectify it, disown it, and therefore gather information from it more objectively, (Like picking up a newspaper and reading about an event ½ way around the world-away), so that we are not totally invested in the new answers duplicating the old answers (AKA habitual answers).
I have often seen meditation (an extremely receptive state) as being a bit like self-hypnosis. Rather than this being a bad thing, this is actually is quite a blessed state, as it allows us to reprogram (a bit like a computer) our stubborn brain out of its grasping onto our old habitual ways of thinking and being. This then opens the door to a more rapid improvement on just about anything that needs improvement in our lives.
Our first ‘knee jerk’ reaction to pain and suffering is of course fight or flight, but that many times only reifies the suffering as being both real and dangerous. It is not. In fact, it may only be a puff of smoke (a ghost) with 2 tablespoons of imagination added, and then stirred (up) like crazy. (All smoke and mirrors.)
In many cases, our pain, or should we call it our suffering, is based upon an unreal and unnecessary notion, and we are blowing it up way out of proportion. Our best option might surely be to investigate what is taking place, just as if it wasn’t you, and get a clear and unemotional blueprint of what is actually going on. Such clarity, in itself, will do most of the work in cleaning up any mess.
Let me just add:
All of these strategies can be taken care of in the immediate moment. These wrongful notions do not actually have a hold upon us like we have been led to believe. They are only memory traces, which we continuously decide to hold onto and refuel, even at times using them to self identify, (as in, “I am a depressed person,” or “ I am a fat person”).
Stop believing in these erroneous statements, stop reinstating them by continuously placing them in a position of honor (by calling them dangerous, or important, or even real), and they immediately begin to melt away. This is because they have no real existence outside of what we have given to them.
So say, “DIE,” and mean it, to ALL suffering.
Peace is a skill,
S9
Thank you my friend.
With respect,
S9
Not speaking of the ACT specifically, but what I have found in my previous studies is that most psychotherapies reify the ego, and dwell very heavily on specific events in a persons past to explain an illness. Everything is an illness.
If they decide (God love them) to let the past go, and to dwell in the present, they then lean heavily on the person’s actions, and interrelationships.
I think you can see (pretty quickly) in this procedure what Buddhism might easily consider an error. First off, in both of the previous methods, they take it for granted that there is a solid ego-self and/or that everything that is lived is lived out there, outside of our skin, again something solid and worse; separate.
So in essence, they at/best are dealing with secondary events or things that have come about 2ndarily (AKA symptoms). When dealing with symptoms exclusively, you don’t actually ever find a cure. What you are doing is alleviating symptoms, hopefully faster than they or other symptoms either create or recreate themselves, a never-ending battle without any permanent resolve.
Buddhism promises something altogether different. It says, “Let’s remove the middle man (the ego) and go right to the source. It asks where are all of these difficulties (regardless of their multiple names or manifestations, and entanglements) actually begin, and can we shut down this crazy factory once and for all?
Buddhism (outlandishly) even (sticks out its neck and) promises that the answer to this question is, "YES." "Yes we can," find this crazy factory and shut its doors once and for all.
More importantly, we do not do this by complete annihilation, as some might fear, but by actually cause ourselves to becoming whole, and permanently satisfied. These promoses are our nature heritage of which we have simply lost touch.
Of course, this is just my way of seeing it, and not the Gospel by St Luke. ; ^ )
But:
Building and supporting the error that we lovingly call our ego is simply a lot of hard and painful work, with little to no pay back. It is an unworkable paradigm.
Warm Regards,
S9
There are Buddhist therapies but are they the only ones with any efficacy? It is true in western Psychology, eradicating ego is not a goal. Many of these are based on empirical studies and found to be quite effective.
I am not saying they are right or wrong. Just that they are used with enough effect to be considered viable treatment. For myself, I agree that no-self is the most effective approach but converting western civilization is not going to be an option at the present moment in time.
A: But that would imply only Buddhists can improve life if they utilize strategies such as mindfulness and acceptance. I know that not to be true.
S9: Could you be more specific about what kinds of improvements you were expecting, and if this is based on personal experience, show me how it failed for you?
A: There are Buddhist therapies but are they the only ones with any efficacy?
S9: No, most therapies are somewhat efficient for dealing with specific symptoms, but even the Buddhist therapies seem to fall into this trap of treating the symptoms.
Most therapies play into only correcting our ego, and our ego world. They do not show us how to transcend ego altogether. To me Buddhism isn’t confined to the definition of simply being a therapy.
A: It is true in western Psychology, eradicating ego is not a goal. Many of these are based on empirical studies and found to be quite effective.
S9: Let us remember that the very people who study the effectiveness of these therapies, are the people who make their living selling them on the open market. Can you spell vested interest?
There is quite a bit of recidivism (relapse) in these areas, as well. Very often a person goes home CURED, only to return later to be CURED again…
Both of these so-called cures are counted as 2 successful cures. Go figure. Can you say grant monies?
Buddhism is more of a skill than a cure. We learn to look deeper, and to see more, thereby making better choices.
And finally:
Best of all:
We drop identification with the ego, altogether. Ego has been blocking our vision (Right View) of who and what we actually are.
Respectfully,
S9
My friends, it is through the establishment of the lovely clarity of mindfulness that you can let go of grasping after past and future, overcome attachment and grief, abandon all clinging and anxiety, and awaken an unshakable freedom of heart, here, now.
-Buddha-
Mindfulness is not only practiced by Buddhists. It is not a patented approach that a businessman or medical therapist can take credit for and benefit financially from. It is an approach that is recommended in a number of therapeutic approaches, and it works. That does not come as a surprise.
In the above quote, it is not letting go of ego that helps people who are suffering (although mindfulness may eventually result in this development). Buddha identifies mindfulness as the clarity that permits one to let go.
Does mindfulness serve to correct the ego? Is it the pathway to transcend ego? One would have to consider case by case but it definitely is a path to enlightmentment. Without it, enlightenment is not possible.
My experience is that mindfulness heals people, even people who have not chosen the Buddhist path or are not wishing to attain enlightenment at all.
Namaste
You have made some very good points here. I especially agree with your ideas about mindfulness adding clarity to this whole equation.
Even in 'Mindfulness' however we can easily limit what we are going to find out, simply by creating preconceptions about what we are looking for.
In the use of ‘Mindfulness,’ are we looking to clean up our act, and to be more saint like, and therefore actually just feeding our ego a more updated story about our persona? This will of course influence what we can find, or is it manufacture with our mind? So that ‘Mindfulness’ is not a tabula rasa, nor is it a canvas on which to draw up our all new prison. (a prison made out of definitions.)
To me this is the biggest distinction between therapy and Buddhism. Where therapy declares the job to be complete, finished, a done deal, and stops investigation further, Buddhism keeps on going until there is nothing left uninvestigated.
Buddhist’s go to the edge of the earth and…jump off.
Namaste,
S9
Either resisting the diffusing out or resisting the focusing can lead to suffering.
It is my firm belief that disordered eating patterns are psycho-spiritual-social-biochemical in nature, and that we will find our most powerful tools for healing in all of these areas. If I were to rely upon only one avenue of intervention, or neglect to monitor that aspect of my mind-body-spirit, I would find my progress slow, stop or reverse.
Buddhism illuminates a path for spiritual progress in a world of Cause and Effect (Karma). I practice to realize the mystic nature of all life and experience, my connection with the sum of the universe, and the benefit of all aspects of my experience. By overcoming obstacles, I become stronger. By practicing compassion, the world becomes a kinder place. By strengthening my life condition to become one of joy and abundance, the world becomes more joyful and abundant.
When I feel that my eating/food behaviors are out of balance or troublesome, I attempt to notice and describe in a neutral way what is happening. I focus on reaching a wise and compassionate place in my own mind, and try to use that "wise mind" to decide what behavior will bring my life more peace and joy and strength in the moment, and in the long-term.
Sometimes it means asking for help, sometimes it means distracting myself, sometimes it means being very still and asking myself what could be causing the imbalance that is manifesting as a distorted eating behavior (thoughts are behaviors, too). Usually it is a combination of factors that helps. But for myself, healing must rest on a profound respect and compassion for self and others.
It sounds like your own wisdom, courage and resolve has had a lot to do with your recovery. Stories such as yours, Bodis' and Channahs' are truly enlightening.
I once heard it said that people who have suffered in these similar ways can be invaluable in recovering from different types of afflictions. Have any of you found this kind of support after formal treatment?
Thank you for your questions and comments. To answer your question: "when you mention psycho-spiritual-social-biochemical sources of the problems, what does that mean?"--
I guess I mean that my life as a spiritual being in a human body can be seen as a culmination of the myriad dimensions of experience as we currently understand it. This is how I see the dominant dimensions of my human life:
Psychology = the mind, thoughts, behaviors, personality, etc within the individual
Spirituality = the way we are connected to the mystic functions of the universe, the spiritual laws that govern all phenomena
Sociology = how study of how groups interact and form shared meanings and experiences, and negotiate the terms of status, power, and resources
Biochemistry = how the physical (biological0 body functions at the chemical level
These aren't really "definitions" for terms, but rather how I describe these different aspects of how I experience my life and my self in its current incarnation.
You ask "Are you able to overcome the obstacles with self awareness and heart alone or is there more to it?"
It's a great question. For me, there is an element of "faith"-- taking a leap out of my current condition to strive for a better one must begin with allowing for the possibility of healing. I see the element of "faith" as essential for changing my life condition, because without it, I wouldn't have the courage to try. It's a kind of knowing that there is more of the world than I can see and experience in my current condition, and that the possibility for a better condition already exists.
"Faith" allows me to discover this already-existent condition of health and balance and joy.
Thank you all for allowing me to participate in this discussion. It is my hope that my experiences in overcoming these challenges can continue to bring courage and peace to others as we all struggle in life.
Cheerfully,
99monkeys99
"Buddhism illuminates a path for spiritual progress in a world of Cause and Effect (Karma). I practice to realize the mystic nature of all life and experience, my connection with the sum of the universe, and the benefit of all aspects of my experience. By overcoming obstacles, I become stronger. By practicing compassion, the world becomes a kinder place. By strengthening my life condition to become one of joy and abundance, the world becomes more joyful and abundant."
this rang very true for me too.
Namaste friends.
Mindfulness and concentration are quite different aren’t they? Concentration chooses one object, say a flame on a candle, and zeros in on it to the exclusion of all else. Whereas ‘Mindfulness’ is more open and subject to whatever happens to come along, an un-judgmental investigation, or what some call acceptance.
So my question to you is, how can we confuse these two? I can see by your words that you have given this some detailed thought. Or is it that you have meditated on this?
And:
Why would hyper-alertness be a negative thing? Is it just that the confusion between it and Samadhi is some kind of a problem, in your eyes? While you are at it, please, how do you define Samadhi, and how does it manifest as a personal experience?
J: The awareness naturally has movements to sharpen up some time to a focus and sometimes diffuse out. When it diffuses up this makes it possible for something in the recesses or background of awareness to move to the focus. If there were no movement then you wouldn't be able to function.
Either resisting the diffusing out or resisting the focusing can lead to suffering.
S9: I read this last statement (above) a number of times, and am not able to follow it. Forgive my slow wit.
; ^ )
Could you restate that a bit differently. I really want to understand what you are saying here, as I have read you on a number of occasions, and enjoyed what you were saying. Thanx
Respectfully,
S9
Perhaps I was the only one who mistook concentration for mindfulness!
It would be negative if you resist the nature of mind to focus AND diffuse. One thing necessary to develope calm abiding is a giving attitude with yourself. It is possible to have a stabile concentration but always there is some diffusion which goes unnoticed by the meditator. This is why calm abiding isn't the final destination. So understanding that it is natural to be caught up in thought (diffuse) you will be more forgiving of slips which will only help to develope a useful calm abiding. Not give up.
Not slow wit I've been exposed to this concept (called e vam) for a couple of years. I think I explained it better above. But to add to it just imagine if you could get absorbed in something and never diffuse? You might drop dead before you came out of your absorption, lol. Metta.
J: Perhaps I was the only one who mistook concentration for mindfulness!
S9: Probably not, people seem to use many of these words interchangeably. But, that only causes confusion, where there need no be any. It would be a little like saying, “I am going mountain climbing,” and putting on your bathing suit. (Wrong tool.) Best to know what you are up against and plan accordingly.
J: It (hyper-alertness) would be negative if you resist the nature of mind to focus AND diffuse.
S9: So you are advocating that we let the mind do what minds do, and not create some kind of an internal war? (That in itself being a distraction from your original purpose.)
J: One thing necessary to developing calm abiding is a giving attitude with yourself.
S9: Would you say that this is like ‘Bare Attention,’ or different in some subtle way?
J: It is possible to have a stabile concentration but always there is some diffusion, which goes unnoticed by the meditator.
S9: Diffusion, the way you are using the word, is new to me. Could you explain this a bit more, not using the word ‘diffusion’ to define it?
J: This is why calm abiding isn't the final destination.
S9:I can easily see that the practice (calm abiding) wouldn’t also be the goal/destination, similar to the fact that the road home isn’t actually our home. Do you have Ideas as to where we are going, and what constitutes arriving?
J: So understanding that it is natural to be caught up in thought (diffuse) you will be more forgiving of slips, which will only help to develop a useful calm abiding. Not give up.
S9: Yes indeed, forgiveness certainly begins to plant the seeds of peace…being unforgiving is like being in a state of war, with the most intimate of enemies…your self.
J: I've been exposed to this concept (called e vam) for a couple of years.
S9: I am not familiar with ‘e vam,’ could you share with us a bit of knowledge on that subject?
J:I think I explained it better above. But to add to it just imagine if you could get absorbed in something and never diffuse? You might drop dead before you came out of your absorption,
S9: Wow, that’s scary stuff. ; ^ ) Are you speaking about trance states? Or are you just talking about what people call ‘normal,’ and I call ‘sleep walking?’ Do that long enough and you WILL certainly die in your sleep…eventually. : ^ (
Warm Regards,
S9
To be able to disentagle from that self-defeating mess would be to free one-self from the source of suffering. In many ways, the purpose of meditation is to diffuse.
Yes, I can see that you can diffuse (reduce) suffering by withdrawing energy from an entanglement of any sort, esp. of a negative sort. You are quite right.
But, I am thinking Jeffrey may have been using this word 'diffuse' in a slightly different way. I think I am getting his meaning, finally. I believe he is warning us against defusing our energy, which can be used for the good in meditation, by fighting against things instead of working more amicably with them. Am I right Jeff?
Please correct me if I am wrong.
This is a good point, Jeff.
And:
Your point is also a good one, AD.
In a way maybe they are similar, but simply approached from opposite sides. I have to think on this. : ^ )
Warm Regards,
S9