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Geshe Kelsang Gyatso

edited November 2010 in Buddhism Basics
I was wondering, has anyone ever read any of this person's books, and, if so, would you recommend them?, the reason I'm asking is, I've seen a lot of them in the shops and they look quite interesting, but, when I asked on another Buddhist forum that I joined, I, basically, got told to avoid his work and they seemed to imply he was into some kind of cult or something, but, then, I've also heard there's this whole conflict or whatever within Buddhism, or just Tibetan Buddhism, about the followers of Shugden (which I think Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is one of them, right?) and the Dalai Lama.

Anyway, I was just hoping someone could help me on this, I was kind of interested in getting his 'Guide to Dakini Land: A Commentary to the Highest Yoga Tantra', but, again, I'm not too sure.

Thanks, again, for any help you can provide :).

David.

Comments

  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited January 2010
  • FyreShamanFyreShaman Veteran
    edited January 2010
    David_2009 wrote: »
    I was wondering, has anyone ever read any of this person's books, and, if so, would you recommend them?, the reason I'm asking is, I've seen a lot of them in the shops and they look quite interesting, but, when I asked on another Buddhist forum that I joined, I, basically, got told to avoid his work and they seemed to imply he was into some kind of cult or something, but, then, I've also heard there's this whole conflict or whatever within Buddhism, or just Tibetan Buddhism, about the followers of Shugden (which I think Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is one of them, right?) and the Dalai Lama.

    Anyway, I was just hoping someone could help me on this, I was kind of interested in getting his 'Guide to Dakini Land: A Commentary to the Highest Yoga Tantra', but, again, I'm not too sure.

    Thanks, again, for any help you can provide :).

    David.


    His books are extremely good. His works were endorsed by the Dalai Lama who praised him as an excellent spiritual guide. They have since fallen out over the Shugden practice which has little relevance to a beginner, but does have relevance to Tantra.

    GKG and the Dalai Lama shared a root guru and both performed Shugden practice. Tha Dalai Lama then decided the practice was in some way harmful to him and banned it (see Youtube) from monasteries. There is now some dispute over his right to do so, as the monks are resident in India which has religious freedom enshrined in law.

    Geshe Kelsang's most comprehensive work is 'Joyful Path of Good Fortune' which contains a huge amount of information and meditation practises.

    The book you mention is only really useful after you have received a Highest Yoga Tantra empowerment and have already achieved a certain level of spritual development through Lam Rim and Lojong.

    There is much on forums and websites about Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and the NKT, and views which paint both him and the Dalai Lama as angelic or demonic and everything in between.

    I have attended Gelugpa and NKT classes for many years, read books and been taught by a range of Gelugpa Geshes. Aside from Dorje Shugden there is no important difference at all. The NKT is seeking to move away from 'Tibetan' emphasis and is IMHO a brave venture.

    As with many sects, there have been problems, one of which was sexual exploitation by a few senior monks - IMHO created by the experiment of having ordained and lay disciples of both sexes sharing residential centres.
    Such things have happened in quite a few sects.

    On the other hand, we see Gelugpa monks who support Shugden being made homeless and destitute as they are thrown out of monasteries at the Dalai Lama's behest. You'll find supporters and detractors when it comes to the Dalai Lama as well as GKG.

    Things are now calming down again.

    The 'cult' nonsense is ridiculous IMHO. I've never seen a single indication of this in decades. There are several 'saviour seekers' on the web who failed to find GKG to be their saviour - they were looking in the wrong place for the wrong thing and bleat very loudly. The NKT is not for people bouncing from Osho etc. looking for external salvation.

    As for Geshe Kelsang I've attended his teachings over the years and he seem a gentle and humble man. He has no gold Rolls Royce, just an old Vauxhall and a small room or two in the Manjushri Centre in Cumbria.

    There are those who think all Tibetan Budddhism is cultish, but that's another story. LOL :)

    Everyone must judge for themselves. I would suggest visiting an NKT centre, maybe attending a few classes and making your own mind up.
    If you only want to explore the books, there are 3 which I would recommend first:
    • The New Meditation Handbook
    • Transform Your Life
    • Joyful path of Good Fortune
    They are all available on Amazon, and from the NKT itself:
    http://www.tharpa.com/uk/meditation-buddhist-books.html

    Good luck. :)
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    edited January 2010
    The Books are very good in depth and detailed...
    He came highly reconmended by his teacher Trijang rinpoche and tzong rinpoche two of the most famous and highly respected gelugpa lama's of the 20th century.
    Even the Dalai lama wrote a forward in one of his books praising him.
  • edited January 2010
    I DON'T recommend 'transform your mind'...

    not for any of the reasons you mentioned, but there's a whole lot more out there, particularly online.
  • FyreShamanFyreShaman Veteran
    edited January 2010
    I DON'T recommend 'transform your mind'...

    not for any of the reasons you mentioned, but there's a whole lot more out there, particularly online.


    Good job. No such book. LOL :)

    You mean 'Transform your Life'?

    It's meant as a gentle intro without too much jargon, but I prefer the other two I mentioned.
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited January 2010
    If you are new to Buddhism, you will probably find his books to be dry and scholastic. And Highest Yoga Tantra is not the entry point you should be taking to Buddhism.
  • edited November 2010
    Dear David, hope you have found a spiritual guide by now. If not best wishes to you on your search. If you feel drawn towards Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, then you should take the opportunity to attend classes and see if you connect with the teachers and Sangha near you. You already have the good fortune to want to connect with Buddhadharma, so you should not worry, just continue your efforts, whether it is with NKT or other lineages. There are so many wonderful teachers of various other traditions as well. So rely on your heart when you make the connection. We each have our own path. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso maintains the pure teachings passed down to him from his spiritual Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, (who was the Dalai Lama's teacher), and the lineage passed down from Je Phabongkhapa (Tibet's two greatest teachers of the 20th Century). To maintain the purity of this lineage and teachings, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso will not alter or stop the teachings passed down from his own Spiritual Guide specifically on the Protector of the Guru's Words. Teaching by example, in maintaining pure Dharma. However, there are several other lineages you may be drawn to as well. Wonderful teachers, like the Dalai Lama, Lama Zopa, Ven. Thubten Chodron, Sakya Trizen, Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche, Trulshik Rinpoche. etc... Take your time if you are unsure. But when you are certain, do not worry, we all have karma we need to patiently accept. Then afterward work hard and go... Gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā
  • edited November 2010
    GKG sounds like my kind of teacher; gentle, humble, modest. I read on another thread, though, that the NKT in England tends to solicit heavily for money from sangha members. Does anyone have any experience to confirm or refute this? Is it something peculiar to the group in England?
  • edited November 2010
    Thank you for asking the question David.

    It is something I've wondered about, although I initially used one of his books.

    The Shugden issue concerned me when I did some research so I have not carried on with his writings, which is inconvenient in a sense because his group have a centre about 30 miles from me in Carmarthen.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Does anyone know what happened to the women in the residential facility that suffered abuse? How did the community handle that? Someone on one of the other threads seemed to be experienced in handling trauma victims, and had some suggestions. I wonder if dharma orgs need to have some staff training in this, just in case an unexpected incident occurs, especially where retreats or residential situations are involved.
  • edited November 2010
    David_2009 wrote: »
    I was wondering, has anyone ever read any of this person's books, and, if so, would you recommend them?, the reason I'm asking is, I've seen a lot of them in the shops and they look quite interesting, but, when I asked on another Buddhist forum that I joined, I, basically, got told to avoid his work and they seemed to imply he was into some kind of cult or something, but, then, I've also heard there's this whole conflict or whatever within Buddhism, or just Tibetan Buddhism, about the followers of Shugden (which I think Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is one of them, right?) and the Dalai Lama.

    Anyway, I was just hoping someone could help me on this, I was kind of interested in getting his 'Guide to Dakini Land: A Commentary to the Highest Yoga Tantra', but, again, I'm not too sure.

    Thanks, again, for any help you can provide :).

    David.
    Kelsang's book An Introduction to Buddhism (or something along those lines) was the first one I read. I found it extremely easy to follow and very informative. Iw ould definitely reccomend him as an author.
  • edited November 2010
    <o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-alt:宋体; mso-font-charset:134; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;} @font-face {font-family:"\@SimSun&quot;; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-charset:134; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;} span.txt {mso-style-name:txt;} span.fn {mso-style-name:fn;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Compassionate Warrior....I'm sorry for such a long response but I did not have time to prepare a more effective short reply. It’s easy to compare costs of other lineages for teachings, for books, for Empowerments, etc. It is similar, across all lineages, across other religions as well. Your steps in your spiritual advancement has choice. You have choice for what you want to do, or as much as you want to do. Some people own 2 or 3 televisions, and various hand held electronic devices. It’s their choice, their priority. For Dharma, you can attend class everyday or once a month. Buy 2 books or a hundred. It is not many books, or empowerments that will lead us to enlightenment, but our dedicated practice of these teachings. But we may buy a new book and see the teaching in a new way, and ripen a seed to encourage us to progress our practice. Our spiritual advancement comes from the wealth of karmic seeds not our financial wealth.
    <o></o>
    It does not matter what lineage or even which world religion you follow, you will see an outpouring of love from individuals. Especially in certain parts of Asia<st1></st1>, there are so many beautiful practices of offerings performed regularly by people who have so little. In western churches, when donation baskets are passed around, sometimes twice in one session, the choice is there to give little or to give much more. It does not matter provided the giving is done with love. In Buddhism, we believe that giving is intended to benefit one’s own mind. Therefore, if done with miserliness, hehe, well that does quite the opposite. We have to be patient to understand these faults are deep seeded in our minds because, as human beings, such contaminations are dominant from our karma. We are not bad people, just have more work to do to destroy delusions that block our inner peace and happiness. The practice of Offering the Mandala is all about this, where we offer the whole universe, including our bodies. There is a story of a boy who once offered to Buddha Kashyapa, a bowl of dust, imagining it was gold. This boy was later reborn the wealthy King Ashoka. Of course, our giving does help dharma centers and others in real need, but the giver is the primary beneficiary. When we give with miserliness we cheat only ourselves, but to stop others’ giving by slandering, by creating a schism and doubt in others by slandering other lineages is even worse. Yet if we recognize this, and that there is still much work to do with our own mind, we can change now. It’s easy to encounter slanders not just against Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and NKT, but also against other lineages, including, H.H.Tenzin Gyatso, H.H. Jigdal Dagchen Sakya, Khenchen Tsewang Gyatso, Lama Zopa, etc. These holy beings live in simple rooms, and they would be just as happy in their retreat caves in the mountains. They are all a living Buddha who do not need money themselves. The books they write and sell maintain their lineage teachings purely, which means there will not be some newly invented teaching, but a true transmission of the lineage in a way that may encourage others of differing capacities to practice accordingly. With money, these Lamas prefer to give to the needy, and to build beautiful temples, and to well maintain them to spread Buddha Dharma in the future. I heard a very beautiful NKT temple was just completed in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1></st1></st1:country-region>Brazil to benefit countless people immeasureably. I recently visited Kumbum Monastery in <st1><st1:state w:st="on"></st1:state></st1>Qinghai (Je Tsongkhapa’s birthplace), and felt much sadness in my heart in this regard, and I prayer it can be better maintained in future. But I am sure my own obscurations prevented me from seeing it as a Pure Land<st1><st1></st1><st1></st1></st1><o></o>.

    We should know that slandering not only is a mirror of the slanderers mind, but it creates unfortunate karma for them because it causes suffering in the minds of others, and it creates doubt in potential followers preventing people from finding pure Dharma in this life. In future, this karma will also germinate again in their mind making it difficult to find Buddha dharma themselves, just as they are experiencing this cycle now. We urgently must make the opportunity now to improve our karma.
    <o></o>
    When you give, give with Love. We should do this from our own financial capacity. I once listened to a teaching by Geshe Michael Roach talking about gluttony and how it was once seen as a sin. He implies whether we always need that muffin or biscotti at Starbucks to go with our Latte, and wonder if we truly cannot afford to give. But if you are truly "honest" about financial inability, talk to your teachers, there are always exceptions made by all lineages, whether it is to attend a critically important empowerment for you at this point in time, or whether you should wait. Or you may ask to borrow a book, or attend a teaching without cost because it is impossible for you. The objectives for all of these are to spread Dharma, not run a business. Of course, money will always be needed, now and in future, as it was a thousand years ago, but is not he objective.
  • Hi all.
    I have been a student and practitioner of Buddhism for many years. I also teach from time to time at schools and colleges in England and Sweden. In my own opinion, the books by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso are among the finest to be found here in the west. Not only are they written with incredible care and focus, they also comprise the essential teachings of the whole Buddhist path. They are, of course, within Gelug/Kadampa Buddhism, but I think anyone can benefit from them. The nice thing about these books, is that one is given a wide scope of Dharma within the same semantic context.
    For those interested in basic yet profound teachings, I would suggest “Eight Steps to Happiness” or “Joyful Path of Good Fortune”. For those interested in philosophy and in deepening their understanding, I highly recommend “Ocean of Nectar”. This text is based on Chandrakirti’s famous “Guide to the Middle Way” commentary on Nagarjuna’s teachings on Emptiness.
    For those interested in an introduction to Tantra, I would recommend “Tantric Grounds and Paths” or “Mahamudra Tantra”. However, above these, I would suggest Lama Yeshe’s “Introduction to Tantra”, which is a beautiful book, giving a far more open and easy explanation of Tantra and its functions.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    GKG sounds like my kind of teacher; gentle, humble, modest. I read on another thread, though, that the NKT in England tends to solicit heavily for money from sangha members. Does anyone have any experience to confirm or refute this? Is it something peculiar to the group in England?
    No friend Im in England And I have not experienced this. I think such a thing can be seen to a be a smear here deals with such accusations.

    http://www.newkadampatruth.org/new-kadampa-tradition/
  • For the sake of keeping spirituality free from the bickering of religious politics, I would advise anyone here not to check out any such website, from either ‘side’; zealousy and defensiveness are not qualities praised by the Buddhas  !
  • (What is that little "FO" with "4A" underneath in a box between Buddhas and ! in Sulmaya's post? I've seen it before...)
  • Guide to Dakini land is too complicated for beginners.
  • As a writer, he is very good but I feel a lot of his stuff is a little dogmatic and may well freak out a beginner. I can read it and get something out of it these days, but I'm much clearer about what views are essential dharma and which are matters of opinion.

    But it's not "bad" per se. There are concerns about Gyato's organisation the NKT, and about this shugden practice, but none of that is particularly mentioned in his books.
  • Dear friends, "Guide To Dakini Land" By Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is not a beginner book. Quite the opposite, it is the most respected book on the practice of the stages of Vajrayogini's path. It is Highest Yoga Tantra, the most advanced and rapid quick path and in pure accordance to Je Phabongkapha teachings, complete with essential supporting practices. We are so blessed to receive this from these kind teachers. It requires us to have a root Guru - holy spiritual guide, a strong foundation practice with ongoing core essentials in Lamrim continued regularly, then truly prepare and receive empowerment in Heruka and Vajrayogini, then maintaining strictly ALL the vows and commitments. Our own karma plays a significant role for progress, and the blessings from all the Buddhas are immensely powerful for presenting us with this book. May an endless rain of blessings fall on you to achieve Buddhahood in this life.
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