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Compassion and boundaries (or not?)
So one of several things I'm tangling with in my understanding of compassion is how to tell when/whether to extend yourself at another person's request when you're just not feeling it.
In a couple of cases currently on my mind, this is actually about other people who want to develop closer relationships with me or redevelop old connections, but if it were left up to me, I'm not interested. For a little background, I have probably a too-busy life with a lot of people in it, both through my job and community activities. I also am pretty independent and enjoy my alone time when I can get it.
And when I get requests to hang out from people I've known for awhile but never felt much connection to--often because I'm uncomfortable with their worldview or don't see much mutual interest--my knee-jerk reaction is that I don't see the point and would rather not. I don't say it outright, but I end up avoiding them and probably hurting their feelings in end.
Does developing compassion mean that I suppress my desires and extend myself to meet theirs simply because it's what they want? And if so, are there eventually boundaries to how far you extend yourself, or to how many people?
Those sound like crass questions, but I guess I'm really trying to figure out if compassion means being dishonest about my feelings in situations like that, or is it my responsibility to just get over it and be the nice person?
Do good Buddhists ever say "I'm just not that into you"?
In a couple of cases currently on my mind, this is actually about other people who want to develop closer relationships with me or redevelop old connections, but if it were left up to me, I'm not interested. For a little background, I have probably a too-busy life with a lot of people in it, both through my job and community activities. I also am pretty independent and enjoy my alone time when I can get it.
And when I get requests to hang out from people I've known for awhile but never felt much connection to--often because I'm uncomfortable with their worldview or don't see much mutual interest--my knee-jerk reaction is that I don't see the point and would rather not. I don't say it outright, but I end up avoiding them and probably hurting their feelings in end.
Does developing compassion mean that I suppress my desires and extend myself to meet theirs simply because it's what they want? And if so, are there eventually boundaries to how far you extend yourself, or to how many people?
Those sound like crass questions, but I guess I'm really trying to figure out if compassion means being dishonest about my feelings in situations like that, or is it my responsibility to just get over it and be the nice person?
Do good Buddhists ever say "I'm just not that into you"?
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Comments
"Idiot Compassion" is to act in a way that props others up, even if it may actually not be giving them the true benefit they require, from either your POV or theirs.
Wise compassion is protecting yourself from becoming a doormat, without negating the natural compassion every sentient being requires or deserves....
The Dalai Lama has infinite compassion for the Chinese.
However, he doesn't intend having tea with them any time soon....
In this world there are the needy and the wanty. I mean you can't really help everybody, But there are always those in need. I don't think you should try to force any connections.
Your job and community action are both excellent things, and something I strive to achieve in my own existence, and 'you-time' is very common sense. That is what I would want for other people. As you suggest, there may be a need for boundaries, otherwise we could only be chasing one another in circles.
See, this is an example of where I get stuck in the mud in these discussions.
Is it kind to tell someone you are not interested in furthering a relationship at their request, or is it forsaking them?
When you see a cup rolling on a table that's about to fall off, you don't think: "well, it might be most beneficial to stop the cup so it doesn't break, so I should wait exactly 2.47 seconds, and then catch the cup" or "Maybe I shouldn't catch the cup because I might pull a muscle in the process, and it's inconvienient".
You just catch stop/catch the cup.
Imagine how much stress/anxiety you would put yourself through if you thought in the way mentioned above about every decision you had to make.
I think the reason you catch the cup is simply because it's the right thing to do, and you know this without having to think about it. A bird doesn't think about flying, it just flies.
Do whatever comes naturally to you. When you do, you'll see that "you" aren't the one actually deciding/doing anything. The mind presents an illusion called agency which gives us the feeling of "owning" our thoughts/ actions. There are some really fascinating things that our mind does that we aren't even aware of, for example:
"It takes 1/2 a second for the unconscious brain to process stimuli into conscious perceptions, but the brain fools us into thinking we are experiencing things immediately" -"The Human Brain Book", Rita Carter.
It really makes me question some of the basic things that we've always assumed to be true.
Anyways, you were specifically asking about compassion, and I believe that compassion is a natural thing, something we don't have to think about. I find that compassion is part of our natural state and doesn't require effort, and when we take thinking out of the equation, the compassion is already there. So if your natural response to reconnecting with this person is hesitation, maybe it's because deep down you know that it wouldn't make you happy, and if you aren't enjoying connecting with this person I doubt that they are going to enjoy it either.
Don't forget compassion to yourself as well
I am not sure if you were referring to what I wrote but if you are, I didn't suggest to use that formula for every decision. I only suggested it for evaluating a potential friendship with someone. If you don't feel like it is right to establish a friendship (for what ever reason), then do not put forth the effort. I also suggest to not drag them along guessing.
One problem with just acting "naturally" is that our minds get polluted with desires and attachments. Like me for instance, my "natural" thought when I read your post was that it threatened my idea. I then realized that I was attached to this idea and I was briefly decieved by a "natural feeling". I then took the time to understand where you were coming from and compassion for myself and what you are expressing innately followed. So in a way, I agree that compassion has a natural order but one must diligently work to establish this process.
I can grasp it that way--thank you. I think my hesitance comes from a feeling of guilt about "not having enough compassion." Yes, I'm second-guessing myself, and that rarely ever turns out well.
Quiet_witness: your reaction was an interesting extension of the discussion. Thank you for that.
What is the kindest way to tell someone you are not interested in a deeper relationship with them?
In response to what you just wrote though: You see, that is not our natural state. You're still thinking, still playing by the rules. You still believe that you or I can have desires/attachments. If your reaction is in terms of "I" "me" or "mine" "his", then that is a thought. That thought creates a sense of separation, distinguishing "you" from "your environment" or "your experience". In the end, when you participate with this thought/dialogue, all you're doing is playing word-games with yourself in your mind.
When you aren't thinking, you're simply doing/being. When there is no thought, there is no separation.
Can you remember playing sports as a kid and getting so into the game that you became a part of it? Instead of thinking about running and kicking the ball, you simply did it? Or a similar experience? This is what I mean when I say "naturally". When you aren't thinking ahead, recalling the past, commenting on the present, or trying to do anything. When there's nothing in your head except silence, that's when you have truely forgotten yourself.
I apologize though, because I use words like "thought" or "natural" and honestly they aren't specific enough to describe what I'm trying to say. I'm not that great with words, and I can see how the way I write can be confusing. Unfortunately, these words are all I got
Lastly: I could be 100% wrong, but I disagree. We make things so complicated for ourselves. Even now, you're putting this "natural state" on a pedestal, as if you haven't achieved it yet. You have, you probably do it a million times in a day. The only reason you don't notice it, is because noticing it would have to require someone noticing it, and you aren't anyone when you're in this natural state. *EDIT* It would be like trying to look at your own eyeballs. *EDIT*
Try to think of it like this, every time you think or have that inner dialogue, you are commenting on something that is happening, like a commentator on a DVD extra. That comment/thought can only take place after the event has happened, right? Even if it's only nanoseconds after the fact. So as long as you are commenting, you're not really watching the events AS THE HAPPEN. You're always a step behind. When you watch what is happening RIGHT NOW, you are no longer reviewing the recording of the DVD, and there is no thought/commentary. When there is no thought, there is no recording.
I have more experience dealing with stopping potential love interests than friends but be honest and don't go into too many details.
For example, if you simply do not have the time to make new friends but they seem to be pestering you and don't catch on to your boundaries, just simply let them know you are busy and if things free up you will call them. No harm no foul. It is easier said than done but it takes courage to be honestly compassionate.
My friend, "I understand" each word you are saying. It's difficult to talk about awareness because the deluded ego of the listener who has not yet realized twists it into something that it is not. The thing is, both you and I have an inner thirst to let people know about this state of being, this state of inner peace wherein no thoughts reside; no mind.. no self. People somehow distinguish this as "nihilism" this-ism that-ism.. They continue to think logically without realizing that logic is a useful servant but a terrible master. I am 20 years old for the past 2 years of my life I had a burning philosophical passion that led me to hit a metaphysical wall; turning me to search within myself and wonder why "I" and all of us acted in this way. This burning desire to find a "meaning".. Then it hit me as hard as a rock.. When one asks himself what is the meaning of life.. they stop at that and don't ask what is the meaning of that meaning.. etc. etc. etc... This will lead the Zen student to hit a metaphysical wall of no-logic. When they hit this wall, all thoughts and conditioned definitions of emotion subside for a moment.. This awareness without definition. The tree is the tree, the water is the water. Now in this conditioned society it's difficult to achieve because everybody has something to say and nobody listens. Therefore, what I've learned is my friend talking to people about this isn't possible. They have to learn it for themselves. They have to think so bloody hard with their deluded ego to realize that is no ego there. They have to achieve this internally. We can only give them directions and guidance. I have to say though your two posts here was some pretty good guidance. I could have used a mentor like you when I was in a deluded ego state.
Anyways lol.. In response to the question sir:
As Marmalade was saying, when you reach this point. There is no other option BUT to be compassionate. You realize that you are still bound by your body's capabilities but your mind is free and without judgment. In this situation, I can go to college, work and volunteer and donate my money without any desire to do anything else. Work is work. Volunteering is volunteering. School is school. Don't get me wrong, I consistently fall in and out of "reality" but as one keeps reaching back in through that foot that you've already got through the door you eventually can reach full awareness. Basically as another poster said be a wise compassionate: Don't be a doormat because your well-being needs to be well in order to help others, but at the same time treat everyone in the same sort of "unloving-kindess" that everybody deserves. Whether your life direction is to help people awaken in the conditioned developed worlds or help ease the physical sensational suffering that is 10000x harder to overcome in third-world countries. I'd like to eventually use a percentage of my income for the latter because unfortunately money makes the biggest difference in this world. You really only have two options when you are aware, one or the other. You simply can't be anything but compassionate. Because you can't feel fear, your altruism is unbounded. ALTHOUGH lol.. I gotta get past my laziness sometimes
Hope this helps my friend. I wish you the best on your journey to your inner nature.
I hope you understand I only felt my idea was attacked very briefly and I understand this is a forum with differing opinions. I was simply illustrating how easy it is to make attachments and how we need to cultivate our minds to not be polluted by these attachments and desires.
Easier said than done. The state of elightenment (being awakened at all moments) is what you are describing more or less. Sure I have many moments of brief elightenment and yes, I believe that an elightened being resides within all of us. Our minds create egos and we grow attached to these egos and become defensive of them. When this defensive reaction occurs, we lose understanding and compassion and create negative karma.
Yeah man it's a long process. One just has to be so deluded to the point where there's no option but awareness. Your deepest fear has to be the fear of a "life without meaning" or just this situation. It has to be in your deluded mind for hours on end. Analyzing everything to the point where you just get so scared and life is so absurd that you want to kill yourself.. and then it hits you. What is fear? Fear is just an emotion and fear is the underlying emotion for the reason why you define all emotions. Happiness, sadness.. blah blah blah it's all to attach meaning to something that isn't form.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. -- Bruce Lee
I know that sounds harsh but that's the way I see it. Life is just too short to be wasting it on relationships that aren't mutually beneficial. There is no Buddhist law that states we have to spend our incredibly precious time with people we'd rather not spend time with.
The Buddha said spending time with fools is painful and I agree. I only have time for one fool and that fool is me. (Hey, that rhymes! That means we're over the hump of winter because I always start spontaneously rhyming in the Spring.)
This is different from if you really hate someone but you try to be a bit kind because you genuinely see that being hateful is harmful. But it would be the same as if your ego told you that you SHOULD act such and such so that you can be a GOOD person and worthy of praise.
The bottom line is to separate what you genuinely believe in is good from what will divide you and make you try to support an ego as a 'good' person. A person could potentially hang out with someone they felt uncomfortable with if it was a genuine motivation of helping someone out. In that case you might not enjoy it but as long as you didn't become divided you would enjoy it in some way.
Synchronicity a song came on my radio with these lyrics:
'Cause I built you a home in my heart,
With rotten wood, it decayed from the start.
Cause you can't find nothing at all,
If there was nothing there all along.
No you can't find nothing at all,
If there was nothing there all along.'
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Makes all the sense in the world to me. I'm apparently very attached to the idea of not being seen as unfriendly or uncaring (suspecting this is preacher's kid residue here).
And in this particular case, the person in question is a relative by marriage--sister of my late husband--which adds a whole 'nother layer of sense of obligation.
I don't dislike her. But I have nothing much in common with her other than the person who has now been gone for 10 years. And I'm tired of being an in-law. There. I said it.
Tell them you are flattered but cannot give them what they need and deserve in such a relationship. :buck: As you are not interested and thus this is true, it is the kindest thing to do for all involved.
Thank you--that is very helpful.
Hey I've heard that one... it still hurts. Its another case in samsara where in short run you cannot spare someone some suffering. It is a good way mind you. When I was 15 I told a girl that I didn't want to hang out because she was boring.
I've thought about saying that a few times. :eek:
I do recognize that there's no real way to have conversations like this without difficult feelings on the other end, no matter how well it's stated.
For example, they can make us more aware about our habit of 'people pleasing' which, of course, isn't any form of compassion or kindness at all but just another exercise in firming up our own ego. This was a big one for me but I'm more aware of it now.
That's very true. Until this discussion, I really hadn't thought about it deeply enough to figure out what was tying me in on this and a couple of other similar situations. It's a combination of the "I shoulds" and "I don't want them to think I'm not nice."
Of course you can't. You can't control someone else's emotional reaction.
Ultimately my point is that, no matter what, the compassionate thing to do for all involved is to not play along and act as if you have an interest when you don't. If you're not interested, you'll never be able to give yourself or the other person what they deserve.
He asked for a suggestion of how to go about it in a gentle way that wouldn't cause needless suffering. I mean, he could try "I can't stand you and would rather spend an evening waxing my testicles than spend it with you"... which is the wiser choice in this sutation is up to him. :buck: Sometimes the latter is necessary. :buck:
What I love about the original post here is that it is in itself an act of compassion arising out of a feeling of compassion. So if you're thinking you need to develop "more" compassion, think about your immediate response to being faced with this quandary and give yourself a bit of a break
I really never thought of it that way before. I just thought I was a bitch!