Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
"The Power of Now"'s definition of true joy
After reading some of "The Power of Now", which seems to condense a lot of buddhism into its pages, it states that there is a happiness that is derived from Being rather than dukkha, which is true love, joy, and peace.
It also states that one may have seen glimpses of this when one's mind stops, for a moment when breath is taken away when one is in a truly loving relationship, when one sees an amazing work of art, when one is in extreme danger, etc.
Well doesn't this mean when one listens to music, and the mind is neutralized, one is basically meditating. I like music and video games because my mind is neutralized, and every once and a while there are moments when you are completely in the present, engulfed in an emotion (adrenaline if listening to a punk song or playing a video game, or peace if listening to a quiet song).
But that brings me to the question, these glimpses are brought on by a flood of emotion and identifying oneself with the emotion, which "the power of now" specifically advocates against, stating emotions should be observed and let to subside just like thoughts. I know, now I'm confused...
It also states that one may have seen glimpses of this when one's mind stops, for a moment when breath is taken away when one is in a truly loving relationship, when one sees an amazing work of art, when one is in extreme danger, etc.
Well doesn't this mean when one listens to music, and the mind is neutralized, one is basically meditating. I like music and video games because my mind is neutralized, and every once and a while there are moments when you are completely in the present, engulfed in an emotion (adrenaline if listening to a punk song or playing a video game, or peace if listening to a quiet song).
But that brings me to the question, these glimpses are brought on by a flood of emotion and identifying oneself with the emotion, which "the power of now" specifically advocates against, stating emotions should be observed and let to subside just like thoughts. I know, now I'm confused...
0
Comments
brian
if i believe that i am Lebron James i still wont be able to dunk a basketball.
there are causes and conditions that we must work with on the relative level in order to function.
Ignorance about the nature of reality is our main problem. What we have to do is recognize and work with our true nature, not fabricate comfortable realities.
I remember reading that the Buddha achieved blissful states through meditation but discounted them as being The Truth, because they were impermanent and Truth cannot be impermanent. Therefore, he kept on looking ...
The power of NOW could maybe be the Truth if it were permanent or it were to become permanent ... All I know is that if all it took were a twist of mind, we would all be enlightened.
The book basically advocates complete mindfulness, and meditating ALL THE TIME, and use your mind as a tool when you need it, and turn it off the rest of the time, which I think is a noble cause.
And the question I was originally asking was whether or not there IS a clarity gained from these moments, because technically your mind does stop, though you identify yourself w/ emotion, whereas having your mind stop when you concentrate your presence is you identifying w/ Being.
I suspect that the clarity that leads to enlightenment is more than just whether or not we have thoughts going on it our heads, but also involves whether or not identification is occurring.
But for good karma shouldn't also spend lots of time doing good deeds?
Love & Peace
Joe
Love & Peace
Joe
My experience is that in the initial moment of a powerful emotion, I forget myself. I experience the emotion without being aware of identity. I'm told that this is clarity, although I don't experience either clarity or non-clarity. I don't experience the emotion as an emotion, but as just this.
So there may be an opening for insight in the initial moment of a powerful emotion. In my case, insights have always come after the fact, while thinking about the experience. Also, insight usually seems to follow painful or unpleasant experiences. But that's just me. What Leah accomplished with tears, Rachel accomplished with joy.
BTW, I don't think there are two kinds of joy. The circumstances may lead to liberation, or to more duhkha, but it's always nice to have a moment of joy. :-)
I don't think its wrong to listen to music or play video games. Or look out at the window and try to align or wish for this healing energy.
For me my meditation practice is formless practice where all thoughts are thought to be ok to be there. It is hoped that the mental thoughts that are blocking the flow of heart energy will at some times we lifted. And then we have glimpses in the meditation of that.
Just notice our own discomfort and imagining how it can be lifted I think we can have an intuition about ultimate bodhicitta and then (for you peace and love) the relative bodhicitta is how we go from there and work out a way to transform ourselves in a loving way.
We can also work with thoughts to break up the energy of other thoughts in a positive way. Something I am learning listening to talks on the Lojong mind training (or purification) slogans.
l
l
l
I think music is good for you, it helps me excercise, feel optimistic, and be happy.
I am reminded of that old story about the student to ran to his teacher and said, "Teacher, teacher, I KNOW!" And the teacher said sadly, "No, you dont know". This went on several times over a period of years until one day the teacher went to his teacher and said "Teacher, I know". "What do you know?" asked the teacher. "I know that I dont know." the student replied. "Yes, you do know" said the teacher.
And so it goes ... learning is a series of unlearning what you thought you knew ... more "Duh" moments than "Ahah" moments. Because until you get rid of misconceptions, you cannot make room for truths. And as you learn truths, more misconceptions are brought into question.
F: Questioning oneself is good. Does the fear arise from thinking that maybe we don’t really understand what we thought we did? This is also good.
S9: Life has a way of filling up until we have no time, or even no room, for new answers. So, we pretty much have to make room by getting rid of something, anything. The way that we do this very often is by questioning, “What don’t I need,” or even “What doesn’t work anymore.”
So like you have said very well, “This questioning is a good thing.” If we do not question, we cannot grow, and unfortunately we will stagnate into either boredom, or pain, or both.
One of the biggest barriers to fresh and vibrant growth has to be, believing that we already know something. And yet, anyone will tell you that we must take something on faith to even move. So, what is a body to do?
I use this statement…”True, so far.” In other words, as far as I have traveled, this does seem to be my best answer, but I am not done traveling…and so, “True, so far.” In this way, truth remains fluid.
F: And so it goes ... learning is a series of unlearning what you thought you knew ... more "Duh" moments than "Ahah" moments.
S9: Yes, learning and unlearning, a very Taoist theme.
Q: Lao Tzu: “I spent the first ½ of my life learning, and the 2nd ½ of my life unlearning ALL that I had learned.”
F: Because until you get rid of misconceptions, you cannot make room for truths. And as you learn truths, more misconceptions are brought into question.
S9: When you tear up a weed, it is sometimes surprising how widely its root have ranged, sapping both water and nourishment from your garden. In this same way, when extract a misconception from your life, you will often be very surprise how far and wide the connotations attached to these misconceptions have wandered out into your own life.
Respectfully,
S9
Epiphany, also known as a gestalt.
Palzang
I spend half of my mental processes visualizing myself and my thoughts, rather than SEEING what is out there. When I'm actually the one seeing, I feel pain and its very undesirable. I don't understand Eckhart here, we are supposed to strive for material happiness, yet we should always be fullfilled even when under extreme adversity. I'm feeling pain and I just don't know how to find peace in it... I don't know how to enjoy life with its presence. Wouldn't it be better just to go to a "happy place" in your head (past or future), to get your mind off the pain?
Palzang
Love & Peace
Joe
One of the Twelve Vows of the Medicine Buddha is to "correct mistaken views". Now I am of course not the Medicine Buddha, but in Tibetan Mahayana, Medicine Buddha is given as a figure to emulate, so I proceed.
I know of no mainstream Buddhist organization or teacher that considers Eckhart Tolle to be a representative of mainstream Buddhist thought in any way, shape, or form. IMHO to consider his teachings as having anything to do with mainstream Buddhism at all is just mistaken. Just mistaken. If there is not any specific connection with accepted mainstream Buddhist teachings, it may be a very nonproductive "side trip", perhaps even an outcome of previous negative karma/delusion or productive of negative karma/delusion. If these "teachings" can somehow be connected to mainstream Buddhism by way of accepted classic scriptures or commentaries, or a recognized teacher, that would sure be a new one on me. He says things that sound nice to some people. That's about it. It may be incorrect to follow his line of thinking much further than that.
If nothing else, something should be said about the necessity of accepting profoundly negative feelings or states in the very next moment after we experience this "true joy". My own interpretation of the teachings is that to get excessively caught up in either "true joy" (whatever that is) or "true negativity" (whatever that is) is going into relatively deluded states.
He says things that sound nice to some people. That's about it. It may be incorrect to follow his line of thinking much further than that.
I hope I didn't leave anything out.
To throw in a little balance, when HH Dalai Lama is not meditating, learning, teaching, or doing his public Dalai Lama stuff, he fixes mechanical things. He used to like to take watches apart and put them back together. Story has it that there was a car at the summer palace that had just been sitting there for several years and he got it to run. Story also has it that often when something mechanical or electrical needed to be fixed at the Potala, they would call him. Everybody needs a hobby. But a hobby is not to be mistaken for realization of emptiness or generating compassion.
The point is not to "neutralize" the mind. The point is to keep the mind as sharp as possible and make skillful choices, such as what to engage with and what not to engage with. And quieting thoughts is one of many techniques for doing that.
Love & Peace
Joe