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Compassionate enabler?
I am having difficulty understanding compassion.
My father can be ignorant, obnoxious and judgmental of others. He is a very nice man, but we all have flaws! I have tried to let him wash over me and show him patience and compassion. Trying to also feel and let go of my frustration with him.
But in constantly being compassionate and patient he continues his harmful behaviour, he may see me as accepting what he is doing by not arguing. Today he cut through a store and walked out the back exit, I encouraged him to follow me around, so as not to exit through the "no exit" zone... Alas he took the short cut and was accused by the store owner of trying to sneek out with stolen goods (karma?).
Later he refused to acknowlege his wrong doings. I want to show compassion and patience but am I encouraging and enabling him to continue his ignorance?
My father can be ignorant, obnoxious and judgmental of others. He is a very nice man, but we all have flaws! I have tried to let him wash over me and show him patience and compassion. Trying to also feel and let go of my frustration with him.
But in constantly being compassionate and patient he continues his harmful behaviour, he may see me as accepting what he is doing by not arguing. Today he cut through a store and walked out the back exit, I encouraged him to follow me around, so as not to exit through the "no exit" zone... Alas he took the short cut and was accused by the store owner of trying to sneek out with stolen goods (karma?).
Later he refused to acknowlege his wrong doings. I want to show compassion and patience but am I encouraging and enabling him to continue his ignorance?
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Comments
I have a similar problem as yourself. I often find myself internally accusing my wife of being intolerant with me. Sometimes the smallest of things sets her off, such as yesterday when she was waiting for me to find my wallet (I always lose my wallet, watch, car keys, and mobile phone somewhere in the house). She said crossly, "I'm going to blow in a minute" as I made my third dash round the house, looking in the usual places where I leave stuff, and I found myself getting really angry because of her intolerance.
But I know enough to know that really, I only felt angry because I was intolerant of her. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know the problem isn't hers, its mine, and hopefully I can find the solution to the problem of this sort of thing in Buddhism.
Compassion and patience is compatible with arguing.
I have a housemate with whom it is very difficult to live as he is extremely unmindful about things like taking care of the house, cleaning up after himself in the kitchen, etc. Sometimes I get so frustrated I just want to yell at him, but what good would that do? It's not likely to change him, only make him more withdrawn. So what I've learned to do is to just clean up after him. I feel better about the house, and maybe someday he'll actually notice what I'm doing and join in. You never know. It could happen. Meanwhile he thinks I'm the best housemate he's ever had because all the previous ones rode him a lot. He has a history of mental problems, so I think it would be unfair of me to hold him to the same standards as I might other people.
I think the secret is of listening to what the other person is communicating, not by their words, but by their actions, and then responding in a way that will be effective rather than aggressive. Doesn't always work, of course. We're only human. But we do the best we can.
Palzang
I live with a dry alcoholic, and while you can take the alcohol out of an alcoholic, you cannot take the "ic" out ... i.e., the internal workings that alcohol tries to relieve are still there. It is NOT easy to live with a difficult person ... and everyone except you and I are difficult people to live with!
The only thing maybe-useful I have to say is that I was not able to start to understand and use compassion until I stopped trying to get the other person to change. I do not agree with FBs advice to try to use I-statements to get the other person to understand how their behavior is impacting others ... compassion starts from within, with the understanding that every single one of us is flawed and imperfect -- including our own selves -- and that this is okay. The only change that is needed is our own internal workings. This is why "difficult people" are to be regarded as our kind teachers, precious jewels difficult to find.
The truth is, when people are adult, we should expect them to act in ways we wouldn't and then we should act in ways that will help us accept what is. It is different with children because they are expected to need practice at direction at living until a certain point. Once they are past that, the rest is up to them. That is the way things work.
So I agree FoibleFull, you can't make choices for adults and for Bodi and Palzang, you have my condolenses.
I wonder if that sounds condescending and I truly didn't mean to give the impression that I know all of the answers but then again, when I feel other people are doing things wrong, or seeing them in a way I don't agree with, I can seem that way. The whole nature of feeling one has the answers.
Namaste
Where is the line drawn between acting with compassion and trying to effect change in another person?
This sounds similar to the advice the Buddha gives in MN 58. Essentially, something is worth saying — even if it's disagreeable — as long as it's factual, beneficial and said at the proper time. So, ultimately, it's up to us to discern whether or not something's worth saying, and if so, when.
It would also seem to me that---even if it correctly reflects the emotions and patterns---the difference would be in whether the the assessment is offered unasked.
If the other person shows no interest in knowing why I am annoyed, then am I not exhibiting an agenda of change by trying to explain my reactions to his behavior?
I would think it is only compassionate, if the recipient of the advice was of a mind to improve by it. Some people would see it as a challenge and take it as an insult no matter what the context was. Under those circumstances, is "friendly advice" compassionate?
Not sure how 'Buddhist' this answer may be, but here goes:
Adults are big children, and many never really mature and change .
Without too much pop psychology, I am convinced that as parents we are driven by our own experiences as a child with our own parents. We may be determined not to be like them (especially in our teens) or we may see their good points and want to emulate them.
If your Dad is ignorant, obnoxious and judgemental there may be a good reason for this.
It may be worth exploring why your Dad is like he is by asking your Mum, if you are able, or his sister or brother.
If you are able to understand your Dad, you are well on the way to having compassion for him.
My parents are now elderly and the 'second childhood' label definitely applies. They blurt out all kinds of things, loudly, and have tantrums just like toddlers. It's tough being the 'parent' and seeing your parents as the 'children' but that's not uncommon.
Maybe seeing your Dad as the 'child' and yourself as the 'parent' would offer you a perspective which allows for his bad behaviour. There is an explanation of such relationships here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis
Thinking about your Dad as someone who may have become as he was as a child, and is stuck there, may help you understand him better. And once we understand, we can forgive and have compassion.
The more 'Buddhist' advice, as has been said, is to work on your own reaction to his behaviour. Observe your reactions to his behaviour and try to understand that your frustration is your responsibilty. The world is less easy to change than our reaction to it.
I once heard a good description of this:
'Do we seek to cover the whole world in leather in order to walk comfortably, or simply put leather oin our own feet? '
Good luck.
Since the first time I heard this, it has become one of the most impactful analogies in my understanding.
Fivebells, important to whom?
I agree with Fivebells here. The compassion is in the reply and the manner it was delivered, the way it was accepted is beyond my control. If this is indeed an accurate representation of reality as I see it and if it is delivered in a kind and compassionate way (not as accusation, with no expectation or attachment to results) then this is clear and honest communication. Right Thought and Right Speech coming together.
This is where I'm becoming confused. As far as I could read, there was no implication in Palzang's (or Bodi's) situation that the other person is asking them why they are uncomfortable. . . so nothing to reply to. The other parties are not concerned.
If the other person isn't expressing interest, isn't it just furthering my agenda of change to make such a statement?
I just read Jason's reference to the Buddha's advice in MN 58. In that case, the Buddha's analogies of beneficial speech (both the horned chestnut and gravel/stick in a child's throat) are based on another person being in danger or discomfort and wanting out.
Or am I missing something?
You are not missing a thing. And you are not confused ... you see it with brilliant clarity.
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just bought new lightbulb.
You are correct. My use of the word "reply" in this case is inaccurate. Statement is the word is should have used. Sorry about the confusion
I don't know that having an agenda is inherently a bad thing. Especially when that agenda is to prevent suffering for yourself and others. For example enlightening someone about the effect their actions have on other people might save this person from bad repercussions in the future and might save others from suffering through this person's ignorance.
I think the point of the Buddha's analogy of the stick and the child is to say that sometimes you have to say things that are unendearing or disagreeable to others because they are beneficial (and also factual and true). The one caveat the Buddha applies is finding the right time to say such things because the Buddha has sympathy for living beings.
I think we are in agreement on the interpretation of that analogy (please correct me if I'm wrong) and so the question that remains is, is this statement beneficial? The Buddha's analogy of a child choking is a little extreme but I think it was used to make the point abundantly clear. In this case, I would say that is still a beneficial statement, as people should be aware of their effect on the world and definitely on their effect on their housemates. In that case all that remains is finding the right time to say this.
I think the key point here is that Compassion and Wisdom go hand in hand. There was a recent thread here that spoke to that idea exactly:
The Tibetan monks I have observed, time and time again, will answer your question:
If someone talks about negative actions they have taken as if they were appropriate actions, the monk does not tell them how they were wrong to act so, or what the effects and repercussions will be. He says nothing, but looks at them with a look of sweet love mixed with gentle sorrow.
However, IF the monk is asked, he will say what he thinks in a gentle, non-condemnatory manner.
The BEST reason to have a qualified teacher is that they show you where you should be heading.
This is where I can see the difference in understandings. To me, "agenda" means that I'm taking it upon myself to effect a change in someone else (and I personally have a LOT of agendas).
Not because the other person is unhappy with his or her state, but because *I* think that person would be better off if he or she heeded my advice. Because in *my* opinion, the world would suffer less. . . whether the world feels it is suffering or not.
Is it my job to save someone else from their suffering if they don't feel they have a problem?
I loved Bodi's story of his father and the rear exit. As frustrating as it must have been for Bodi, to me it happened exactly as it was meant to be--his father created his own karma and lived through the experience. His father might choose to relive that experience another time or not, depending on whether he is interested in the consequences. It's about his life, not Bodi's.
Now, if his father were complaining to Bodi about his suffering at the hands of the store management, that might be the time to remind him of cause and effect--because he is expressing his suffering. It also might be a good time to advise him that if he does it again and gets arrested, Bodi might not have the money to bail him out! THAT's when it becomes about Bodi's life.
I also loved Palzang's story because he recognizes that his housemate has mental issues that are clouding his thinking. If his housemate were doing something to endanger himself or others, I have no doubt that Palzang would find a way in his compassion to help his housemate protect himself.
I would also see Bodi's story differently if there were indications his father is suffering from mental issues or Alzheimers, and unknowingly endangering himself or others in his actions.
I don't know the specifics of Katie's situation, but in general, I agree with this. In my opinion, living in harmony with our housemates is an important thing. Having compassion doesn't mean that we automatically become doormats—it means trying to alleviate the suffering of others, as well as ourselves, whenever possible.
When that's not possible, however, the Buddha encourages us to cultivate equanimity; but it's still up to us to do whatever we think is the most skillful thing to do.
It obviously does affect Palzang's life that his housemate leaves a mess. If it affects Palzang's happiness with his living situation enough that he would consider changing it (moving out), he owes it to the housemate to tell him how his messiness affects Palzang's happiness with his living space. Because if Palzang decides in time that it's intolerable, he will find another housemate or another place to live, either of which will affect his housemate.
But if Palzang doesn't see the issue as ever being uncomfortable enough to make his own change?
Not because you should be compassionate and patient, but because it actually creates more of a situation where the interaction will be beneficial.
It appears the roommate has worked his way through several roommates and it has changed nothing. By demonstrating patience and understanding, if anyone is in a position to speak to this person, it would be Palzang. To me, that is being skillful.
Unless the person in question is incapable of processing such a statement, which he is.
Palzang
Not really. Sure it would be great if he would change, but I have no control over that. He'll change or not change as the case may be. My task, if you will, is to simply learn how to live with whatever way he is and appreciate him for what he is, not for what I wish he was. In many ways he is very generous and kind, so if I have to clean up after him, it's not so big a deal. Which is not the way I would have always looked at it, btw!
Palzang
I think if you hold in your anger too much you'll inevitably blow up. Possibly at someone else entirely. I recommend venting some of that anger in a humorous light hearted way and then just dropping it. Just like you drop the worlds conjured up in meditation. Phhaaat or whatever
I am contemplating my emotional response in greater detail, now. Why did I feel anger, how did it feel, what did I learn? I tried to explain the situation in a matter-of-fact fashion after he was complaining and holding onto the situation. He responded with "Naaah, I'm never wrong! Stupid man! I'm never comming back again!" I took a breath and left him with my observation. Perhaps it has had some impact, perhaps not. Nonetheless, I acted in a way I don't regret and I cannot change anyone but myself (to some extent). I see now what youmean by brittle caricature. I cannot force these things. I do feel that after speaking with my father and leaving it to him, I felt some degree of compassion... or perhaps empathy? I have much to learn.
This thread has been profoundly insightful and helpful. I take no offence to any criticism or observations, I want to learn. I am fearful of how little I know, but excited with how much more I have to learn!
Namaste friends,
Katie xoxo
Practice buddhism long enough, and you will discover than you neither blow up nor need to vent. If we vent our anger in a light-hearted way, the only recipient who doesnt see our anger is someone in a coma.