Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Buddhism is a lie.
Aha! You looked! I'm just kidding. Sorry guys, to be honest I just couldn't think of a name for this thread so I thought I'd play a little joke on you. 
I hope you're not too upset with me, but I'll understand if I get a few death threat PM's.
Anyways, to my question:
Lately I've been practicing observing without images. By images I mean words, labels, memories, opinions, etc. For example, when you see a bird you say "Oh, there's a bird", and there is an immediate reaction of recalling memories and the images you have. Now, we can put that reaction aside so that there is just the observation of the bird, the color of it, it's movement, and grace. For the most part, it's pretty easy to observe birds without images, but not so much with your family, spouse, etc.
I think I might be upsetting my family by doing this. I think they're worried that I'm changing or becoming depressed. I think they want me to have images of them, because they're used to it.
I don't think I've become cold or callous or anything, I've just dropped my images of them and of myself. I still smile, hug them, tell them I love them, talk and interact with them, but I guess I've been a little more honest with myself about it. I smile when I'm happy, and I laugh when I think something is truly funny, and when I'm talking with someone I say what's on my mind. I still try to be gentle and considerate with people, but I guess I don't really worry about impressing them as much anymore? When I drop the images, I don't worry what people think, I don't compliment or criticize unless it's what I'm really feeling.
I don't want parents to think I'm depressed or anything, but I also find life is a lot easier/more enjoyable when I look at things from this perspective.
Any thoughts/advice/words of ancient buddhist wisdom?
I hope you're not too upset with me, but I'll understand if I get a few death threat PM's.
Anyways, to my question:
Lately I've been practicing observing without images. By images I mean words, labels, memories, opinions, etc. For example, when you see a bird you say "Oh, there's a bird", and there is an immediate reaction of recalling memories and the images you have. Now, we can put that reaction aside so that there is just the observation of the bird, the color of it, it's movement, and grace. For the most part, it's pretty easy to observe birds without images, but not so much with your family, spouse, etc.
I think I might be upsetting my family by doing this. I think they're worried that I'm changing or becoming depressed. I think they want me to have images of them, because they're used to it.
I don't think I've become cold or callous or anything, I've just dropped my images of them and of myself. I still smile, hug them, tell them I love them, talk and interact with them, but I guess I've been a little more honest with myself about it. I smile when I'm happy, and I laugh when I think something is truly funny, and when I'm talking with someone I say what's on my mind. I still try to be gentle and considerate with people, but I guess I don't really worry about impressing them as much anymore? When I drop the images, I don't worry what people think, I don't compliment or criticize unless it's what I'm really feeling.
I don't want parents to think I'm depressed or anything, but I also find life is a lot easier/more enjoyable when I look at things from this perspective.
Any thoughts/advice/words of ancient buddhist wisdom?
0
Comments
I have been doing this too and it's so comfortable when you stop analyzing things. So drop the thought that maybe your parents think you are depressed just like you dropped other kinds of thoughts and rationalizations. If they have any worry they will ask you and when they do you can tell them you are not depressed.
The more you let go the brighter and happier you feel so it is the opposite of depression and they will notice that you are not depressed but happier than normal. I think you are on the right path so keep at it
Perhaps, through your busy day, if you can take a second here and there to once again look inside and see this inner dialogue, you will again and again be amazed that by attending to it and simply being aware of it - it just disappears. Rest there in that point of disappearance. And resting there brings with it a great sigh of relief and peace. You have found your true identity: the pure silence, your true self and home.
perhaps, in an effort to not carry such things around with you, you've dropped them too much?
The whole point is to understand that even if these things are impermanent, ephemeral and illusory - they're still "a happening thing".
This is the joy of understanding the Duality that is existence.
That beautiful things are there for us to enjoy, be blissful in, and be glad of. to love and find joy in.
precisely because of their impermanence.
So the thing is, to fully be aware and present, and immerse yourself fully in these images, but be equally able to release and let them go.
'Dropping' the images can be disconcerting.
Letting them go, is gentler.
On us, and on them.....
I think you meant Buddhism is a-liVe.... didn't you?
Wonderful advice
EDIT: @pegembara, yeah when you LOOK at different parts of your mind functioning, you drain energy from them and they eventually cease to exist. Well atleast that's how I explain it.
I would suggest you find a qualified, long-time monk-teacher who really knows his stuff to discuss where you are at and see what might need tweaking.
I think this is very possible. Maybe I'm making an effort to not make an effort, which is why I feel worried about hurting my family in the first place?
I think it's also very possible that I'm not letting go enough. They haven't confronted me about this in any way, but I also feel like I might be holding back because I don't want to worry them so much that they feel they have to. Maybe I'm worrying about my family needlessly...
I guess life is always about trying to find that balance, that middle between holding on too much and letting go too much. Maybe when you do it without thinking about it, without any effort, without even realizing it, that's when you've found the middle?
If I ever met such a person, I'd enjoy that, but I don't think I'd ever go seek one out. Maybe you all can be my monk-teachers?
Hahah, definitely.
Whenever we change our behavior, even in a small way, the people closest to us are going to notice, and may even fear that we are moving on or leaving them behind. Perhaps this is because, all of our life, most everyone that comes into our lives then drifts away, that is except for a very precious few.
Not sharing your new ideas and the reasons for your new behavior with these people, may be why they feel left out and even left behind in some way?
Also, how you believe you are acting (subjectively) may not even come close to how it appears from the outside. Being pensive and withdrawn may appear to your fearful folks as being stand-offish, or even a sad lack of good humor.
Just a thought,
S9
The cake is a lie.
You mean like the blind leading the blind? Now there is a recipe for disaster!
I think that may round out the picture a little for you. What do you think?
BTW, do you take your name from the Scottish band of the same name? Just curious.
Palzang
Well letting go doesn't mean getting rid of your possessions, stop caring about the things that should be cared for like your family or abandoning anything. So what do you mean by letting go too much?
In my opinion, there is nothing in Buddhism that is "letting go too much". For an example, you still love and care for your family, you help your mum when she is sick but you are not attached to them to the point that when someone dies you cry pools of tears but see the impermanence of our existence and accept it as a part of life. You still use your car to work but if one day you lose it then you are perfectly fine with taking the bus. You don't sit and worry why you lost the car and how inconvenient it is to take the bus. These are just two simple examples.
So letting go is not about abandoning things or becoming a totally mute, unfeeling person but about not getting endlessly attached to anything or craving for things. That kind of letting go is the ultimate happiness as far as I see it.
I have read that arahaths have a loving compassion for all beings but they are not like "I love him/her and hope he/she will be mine forever", they praise it when they see a beautiful thing but they won't say "wow i want to see this scenery again tomorrow as well". They enjoy tasty food but they won't keep on asking for the same dish again and again. Do you see the difference here?
But I agree that letting go should be a perfectly natural and comfortable process where you abandon the craving for something little by little through understanding and most importantly through deep meditative realizations. Forced letting go is just another delusion which won't last long. We can't do it all at once and we are all still attached to one thing or the other. But it is important to know what letting go is all about and practicing it little by little gives you an immense sense of happiness even at this initial level.
Shalom and Hugs!
I guess what I mean is that I'm afraid of maintaining that "imageless" viewpoint constantly.
Deep down I think It would make me happy to just stay in that viewpoint forever. When I'm in it, everything is okay just the way it is. Eventually though, there's a slip in my confidence. I might see my mother, and feel that if I don't act like myself I'll worry her, even if "myself" is more anxious/stressed. Then, I start falling out of it, and all the anxieties, fears, thoughts, images, and over-analysis slowly come back to me.
We lost my sister when she was just a baby and my mother never really got over it. I also gave her quite a few gray hairs when I was younger and suffering from depression and other psychological disorders. I guess I'm afraid that if I don't act like myself she'll think I've finally snapped (haha, maybe I have). I wouldn't put her through the pain of losing a child again for anything. I guess that's why I hold back, I almost feel like I'm abandoning her by letting go of myself like that.
In all other aspects of my life, I'm fine with being in that imageless perspective, just not with my mother. I guess I'm just a mama's boy
I think you're right. I think the compassion you're talking about comes about naturally when you're in that "perspective". I think I have a ways to go before I really develop that equanimity though. To be honest, I think my humor has developed a lot more than my compassion. I don't take things as seriously as before, now everything's just funny. I guess that's helpful in it's own way though...
Nope, I actually took it from the Beatles song "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". Remember the verse about "tangerine trees and marmalade skies"? I do love their song "Rainbow" though!
Ah, thanks.
And I think developing your humor is also a good thing. I never trust anyone who can't laugh at their own craziness.
Palzang
Do you have any evidence at all that this has actually affected your mother and your family in the way you fear? In earlier posts, you seem to say that your behavior toward them is virtually unchanged, and/or that it is still quite open and affectionate.
It's impossible to maintain this position of "imagelessness" forever- it may be impossible to maintain this long enough to cause real problems, or for them to even notice. At some point the reality has to be accepted that one's mother is one's mother in this lifetime, and there is a proper way to approach that relationship.
I'm not even sure that maintaining this position of "imagelessness" has anything to do with Buddhism. IMHO, Buddhism tells us that although it's all very relative and impermanent, the point is to recognize the impermanence and approach relationships in that way rather than not approach relationships at all. For purposes of existing in this world, one's mother is one's mother and one's family is one's family, and that should be dealt with realistically in that context. Come to think of it, I guess I will have to go back and read your posts again to figure out what you mean by "imagelessness" and see if I understand whether or not that really has anything to do with Buddhist practice.
I can relate
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
And again, do you have any evidence at all yet that your family have even noticed any changes in your behavior, or become distressed by them?
Not to speak for Marmalade, but what I got out of what he said is that he's trying to get past all the conditioned responses we have to everything we see and hear and just allow the unfiltered sensations to come through. Of course, easier said than done, but I don't think it's a bad thing to try to experience that as it would help develop equanimity and even pure awareness. I think it would not be wrong to label that "Buddhist" if putting a label on it seems important.
Palzang