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Difference between Zen and Tibethan buddhism?
slowmichael
Explorer
I really feel in touch with the buddhist way of living. I have been reading a lot: Tith Natch Hahn, Pema Chodron, Jack Cornfield and many others.
I live in Belgium and the mainstream buddhist scene here is in to soto Zen.
I tried a session with a group, they where very friendly and welcoming. I have experience with meditation coming from a yoga background. So i had no problem sitting for 2 times 25 minutes and folowing my breath accepting everything that came to my mind.
But in most books i read there is mentioning of meditating on topics: death, loving kindness, equinamity, sadness, .......... .
I spoke to the main guy at the soto Zen sangha about this and well i had the impression that in Zen there are no topics!
Personaly i like these topics. Altough i never experienced that kind of meditation i expect that these topics serve as a guide to grow as a meditator.
Zen for me is like learning how to play piano and the teacher says just sit by the piano you will learn it. Whilst learning to play piano requires breaking down the skills in to simple GUIDED exercises.
Oh and please i don't want to insult people that are in to Zen. Also perhaps i am very wrong judging Zen from my first experience.
Slowmichael
I live in Belgium and the mainstream buddhist scene here is in to soto Zen.
I tried a session with a group, they where very friendly and welcoming. I have experience with meditation coming from a yoga background. So i had no problem sitting for 2 times 25 minutes and folowing my breath accepting everything that came to my mind.
But in most books i read there is mentioning of meditating on topics: death, loving kindness, equinamity, sadness, .......... .
I spoke to the main guy at the soto Zen sangha about this and well i had the impression that in Zen there are no topics!
Personaly i like these topics. Altough i never experienced that kind of meditation i expect that these topics serve as a guide to grow as a meditator.
Zen for me is like learning how to play piano and the teacher says just sit by the piano you will learn it. Whilst learning to play piano requires breaking down the skills in to simple GUIDED exercises.
Oh and please i don't want to insult people that are in to Zen. Also perhaps i am very wrong judging Zen from my first experience.
Slowmichael
0
Comments
I can understand where you have found the similarities between zen meditation and sitting by the piano expecting to learn without doing anything. After reading this I feel you are a little mislead about zazen (Zen meditation).
In practicing Zen meditation, sitting down for thirty minutes a day and following my breath, I have been able to cultivate more awareness about the world and reality around me.
I don't know how following my breath has done this but the world makes more sense to me then it did before I started to do this meditation. It probably has something to do with the fact that when you quite your mind and the most mundane aspects of you life disappear the more important things you have subconsciously discovered get to shine and this gives your mind a chance to explore this farther.
Another Zen meditation practice I'm currently looking at beginning is koan study. This is were you get a question that doesn't make sense if you follow the basic things your mind has been programmed with, you repeat the question over and over in your head, and eventually your mind with have an AH-HA! moment when you have discovered the answer to the question. Most of the time that answer won't make any sense either but your mind has broken through its preconceived ideas about reality.
Zen is a very simple but ritualistic Buddhist practice. In essence though it is trying to help you discover what the universe really is.
Tibetan buddhism is about discovering and experiencing the true nature of reality.
I can't speak too much on this style of Buddhism because I don't know much about it. Personally it seems to me to be a rich tapestry of rituals, stories, meditation exercises, and deep insight to the world around us.
In the end though all Buddhist paths seem to be heading in one direction, no matter what they do to get there. They are trying to liberate you from the self-imposed shackles of suffering you have placed on yourself.
Very similar to when I practiced zazen at which time I understood that when I had thoughts I should return to the breath and start over my count at 1.
The purpose is that the awakened mind should arise as you are able to drop all the other kinds of thinking. Unfortunately these are rare occurences. Brief glimpses.
The other types of meditation are forms practice. Some types are to develope concentration on an object. I haven't done this type so I am not aware what the purpose should be. Other types are to work with your existing thinking.....by thinking about it which might help you to realize how you are thinking and shift that around.
Only once you have developed good concentration (for example, 21 breaths with absolutely no break in focus), then you can start Analytical meditation ... the "stories", so to speak. Here you start to cultivate wisdom.
Tibetan Buddhism also focuses on cultivating compassion for all sentient beings, and the promise to work towards enlightenment for the sake of all.
Yes, there are lots of ritual practices in Tibetan Buddhism. I like them because they work on all three styles of learning. The ritual practices require us to use all three styles, so our learning is enhanced: The visual learners learn through visualization, etc. The auditory learners learn through the chanted prayers and pujas, etc. The kinetic learners learn through prostrations and mudras, etc. Because ritual uses all of these styles, the learning and shaping of our habits is much deeper than if we used only one style.
Having not practiced in the Zen tradition, I will leave it to those who have, to compare it from their side as Pietro has.
As far as Tibetan Buddhism goes, it is important for one to realize that it is made up of both Sutra and Tantra and both are taught within Tibetan Buddhism. Perhaps by Tibetan Buddhism you may mean Vajrayana, in which case I can say that in comparison, Vajrayana usually has specific methods of practice and meditation to lead one to the goal. Meditation practice early on tends to focus on Shamatha (calm abiding). It is important to be guided by a Guru (or Lama) when practicing Vajrayana. Also, generally one must have certain strong aspirations to be able to develop certain qualities favorable and somewhat necessary for practicing Vajrayana.
As for the piano analogy, you are taught to play by practicing in a certain way, instructed by and according to how the teacher see's best for you to do so, according to conditions and capacities.
Vajrayana is also about discovering the true nature of reality. In this way Vajrayana and Zen are very much comparable.
There are all kinds of pointers...
"Salt is salty, sugar is sweet".
This direct pointing is one-with the structure and discipline of Sangha. This formal practice, zazen, is an expression of non-duality. It sounds strange to put it that way, but once you take up the practice in Sangha, give yourself over completely to the form. it makes sense.
Reading about Zen isnt zen. Zen is doing.
Since we're talking about the differences between Zen and Vajrayana, I think the answer is that it's all Yadayadayada unless there is a good teacher. The basics need to be understood before either Zen or Vajrayana can be understood.
Baby steps. Keep it simple. Learn the basics first.
While that may be true, one can not really practice Vajrayana without a proper teacher.
M
Geez...Tough crowd!
Buddhism is surely no different from other activities in life. I hope nobody would learn to drive a car by taking to the road alone. The chances of going nowhere or even crashing are quite high. Your mind is surely more valuable than a car.
There is some good information online on how to meditate, but it is no substitiute for the guru who can guide you as you encounter different obstacles on your path.
Yes investigate carefully first - but definately Tibetan Buddhism /Vajrayana can't be practiced properly without one-to -one input from a teacher....and from what I understand about Zen, I think its the same.
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...its your charms Five Bells.
Zen or Tibethan?
Aha i have found aTibethan sangha near by. I think that a more guided way of starting with buddhism would be better for me.