Amitabha Buddha Land of Ultimate Bliss = heaven?

datapoly

i find it interesting that the Amitabha Sutra, mention that people who recite or call upon his name by the time of dying will be born in the Land of Ultimate Bliss with the reception by Amitabha buddha. (ref : http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Amitabha.htm)

i am not a christian, but i understand from my christian friend that all believer of God will be reborn in heaven upon dead.

this sound very similar isn't it?

is the pure land similar to the christian heaven?
is the western land pointing to the direction of jerusalem? (which is on the west side of india)
is Amitabha similar to God? (he who have faiths will be save)

any insightful comment?

happy metta

Brian

There are definitely similarities. I'd be very interested to educate myself on the history of the Pure Land sect. I personally feel that Pure Land is another pseudo-religion based on Buddhist principles (much like the Tibetan belief system). I consider orthodox buddhism (that is to say the actual dhamma as spoken by Gotama buddha himself) to be the foundation upon which these different sects are built. As we all know, as buddhism spread around asia and then the world, it was easily adapted to fit in comfortably with each culture that came in contact with it. Thus, the Tibetans have their mystical beliefs (oracles and animism) but are still considered to be Buddhists.

I think the bigger discussion would be the seperation between buddhist principles and buddhist spirituality/mysticism. I see them as seperate aspects of the same thing. I suppose with some effort, any religion on earth could be considered a buddhist religion with some bending here and there, due to the universal truth of the basic principles. Therefore, I regard Ch'an (Zen) as a religion more than a set of principles.

For new buddhists who may not know, Amitabha was a different Buddha. Followers of the pure land sect of Zen buddhism believe that chanting his name at the time of death is one sure way to enlightenment.

I think this may boil down into a discussion of Mahayana vs. Theravada (doesn't it always?).. The theravada teachings speak of no such things as "one sure way" to achieve enlightenment other than the only way - release from all attachment. One could argue that an attachment to Amitabha would actually hinder that progress.

This could be a very lively discussion!

Linc

We were just discussing Pure Land Buddhism the other day in class and it didn't seem like it appealed to me much. It overlaps too much with parts of Christianity I'm not very keen on.

Brian

Yeah, as I said, "this could be a very lively discussion!"

bodhi

Pure Land is very much different from Christienity.
Christien belief in going to heaven whereas Pure Land Buddhist goes to Buddha Amitabha Pure Land.

Buddhist belief in different level of heaven and that it is not permanent, that is when one uses up all the merits one will still encounter rebirth.

Buddha Amitabha Pure Land is not consider a heaven but a place where everything is pure but its still not the ultimate place but just a place where condition is perfect for achieving enlightenment without the all the suffering, distraction and desire found in this world.

Pure Land Buddhist vow to rebirth to this Pure Land so as to become a Buddha that is to achieve enlightenment. As achieving enlightenment in this world is too difficult as compare to Buddha Shakyamuni time.

kinlee

datapoly wrote:

i find it interesting that the Amitabha Sutra, mention that people who recite or call upon his name by the time of dying will be born in the Land of Ultimate Bliss with the reception by Amitabha buddha. (ref : http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Amitabha.htm)

i am not a christian, but i understand from my christian friend that all believer of God will be reborn in heaven upon dead.

this sound very similar isn't it?

is the pure land similar to the christian heaven?
is the western land pointing to the direction of jerusalem? (which is on the west side of india)
is Amitabha similar to God? (he who have faiths will be save)

any insightful comment?

happy metta

Pure Land is a place where there all supreme living and education conditions are available for Buddhahood achievement (Enlightenment). The main aim off course for it's citizens to learn from Buddha Amititabi. It's really a cultivation development with best practices ever-known. No is it not Heaven.

Based from Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva Sutra(地藏菩薩本願經), it presents varies different levels of Heaven. There is a life-span for beings in these Heavens.

As far as I can understand, the state of true-self/nature is the concept of wholeness or oneness where there are no concept of polarity, distant and time. Everyting is just one, the diversity that we see today is the creation of our every wondering minds and ever-changing thoughts. Our minds created everything and our thoughts cause for things to change every moments (law of impermancy).

Amitabha is not similiar to God. God is a father and son relationship, whereas Amitabha is a teacher in helping others to gain Enlightenment, release free from all sufferings. Which includes the breaking away from reincarnation.
You can find interesting and valuable materials pertaining to God and Buddha at http://www.thubtenchodron.org/.

There is also an interesting writeup about God or NoGod at http://www.stanford.edu/~pj97/God.htm

Enjoy.

Kin Lee

pj.pilgrim

Among Pure Land practitioners, there is a variance in understanding. Pure Land is taught as a literal truth to beginners, but advanced practioners will tell you that Pure Land exists in the mind only. The sixth Patriach, Hui Neng said in the Platform Sutra "If one's mind is not pure, how can you expect Amitabha to welcome you in his Pure Land?" Pure Land practitioners will repeat his name over and over again, (although accorsding to the Sukhavati Sutra, reciting it once will allow you rebirth there), because they take it as a samatha meditation exercise to calm the mind and make it receptive to the Dharma. Hence metaphorically, being born in the Pure Land where one can then work out one's liberation.

mantra0

I think Christian heaven is in one of the desire Deva realm.

Pure land is like an environment very conducive for Buddhist training for the practitioners to become Buddha easily. It's not really a place purely for worldly enjoyment.

That's my opinion.

Dazzle

'Pure Land' seems to mean different things to different people. For me it represents a mental state as do other 'realms'. This was also once confirmed for me in a private discussion with a Tibetan Buddhist teacher.

My practice now centres around the instructions of a Theravada teacher who advises that present moment awareness is all important, so for myself, speculation about other realms isn't really relevant to the here and now.


.

Alfonso

All this kinds of teachings are connected with the individual's mental continuum; it is like speaking about the 5 Dhyani Buddha, in the end, they are aspects of the awakened mind. If you see Amithaba as a totally external being, then you are not properly understanding the idea, still there are benefits because of interdependence.

Dazzle wrote: »

'Pure Land' seems to mean different things to different people. For me it represents a mental state as do other 'realms'. This was also once confirmed for me in a private discussion with a Tibetan Buddhist teacher.

My practice now centres around the instructions of a Theravada teacher who advises that present moment awareness is all important, so for myself, speculation about other realms isn't really relevant to the here and now.


.

Totally agree.

Following what you said, I think one could also say that for every fully awakened Buddha there is 1 cooper mountain realm for example.

Joshua

Are you all implying that upon death you may actually manifest an external Amitabha realm simply out of conviction?

caz

datapoly wrote: »

i find it interesting that the Amitabha Sutra, mention that people who recite or call upon his name by the time of dying will be born in the Land of Ultimate Bliss with the reception by Amitabha buddha. (ref : http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Amitabha.htm)

i am not a christian, but i understand from my christian friend that all believer of God will be reborn in heaven upon dead.

this sound very similar isn't it?

is the pure land similar to the christian heaven?
is the western land pointing to the direction of jerusalem? (which is on the west side of india)
is Amitabha similar to God? (he who have faiths will be save)

any insightful comment?

happy metta

Upon the time of Death friend certain things happen, The last mind at the moment of Death has the potential to ripen which ever rebirth we are about to take which is why the emphisis is always on controlling the mind and making it peacefull, Those whom die with a angry deluded mind will ripen negative karma that will lead them straight to the lower realms, But those with faith and conviction in the 3 jewels at the time of death by holding on to these very virtuous minds will ripen the potentials for higher rebirth, In the case of devotes of Lord Amitabha by reciting mantra and meditating upon him and his pureland they are laying their mind with seeds, So that upon the time of death their faith and conviction will create the causes and conditions for Amitabha to appear to them directly, Just as those whom die with a good mind will often report seeing family and friends at the end of the light, Those whom create the causes and conditions for the so called Instant enlightenment of being dissolved into Amitbhas Dharmakaya Pureland will definitly experience these results.

Shutoku

In Jodo Shinshu the Pure Land = Nirvana and Amida = True reality.
Also in Shin we die and go to the Pure Land where we attain enlightenment, and then return in helpful forms to save other beings.
We do not need to recite Nembutsu at the moment of death, or any specific number of times, and since it is entirely other power, we recite the Nembutsu purely as an expression of gratitude to Amida for always having us within his grasp.

Sukhavati is definitely not the same thing as heaven, and Amida is definitely not the same thing as the Judeo Christian God.

Ch-an_noob

bodhi wrote: »

Pure Land is very much different from Christienity.
Christien belief in going to heaven whereas Pure Land Buddhist goes to Buddha Amitabha Pure Land.

Buddhist belief in different level of heaven and that it is not permanent, that is when one uses up all the merits one will still encounter rebirth.

Buddha Amitabha Pure Land is not consider a heaven but a place where everything is pure but its still not the ultimate place but just a place where condition is perfect for achieving enlightenment without the all the suffering, distraction and desire found in this world.

Pure Land Buddhist vow to rebirth to this Pure Land so as to become a Buddha that is to achieve enlightenment. As achieving enlightenment in this world is too difficult as compare to Buddha Shakyamuni time.

^Excellent summary of the Western Pure Land

I really liked this part of the Amitabha Sutra, emphosised the greatness of Shakyamuni Buddha:

“Sariputra, just as I now praise the inconceivable merits of all buddhas, those buddhas also comment my inconceivable merits, proclaiming these words: ‘Sakyamuni Buddha is able to accomplish extremely difficult and rare feats. He is able in the Saha land amid the evil period of the five degenerations – the decay of the kalpa, the deterioration of views, the delusion of the klesas, the decline of sentient beings, and the diminishing of life-spans – to attain anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. For all sentient beings he teaches in every world this Dharma that is hard to believe.’”
“Sariputra, you should know, I practiced these difficult feats during the evil period of five degenerations, attaining anuttara-samyak-sambodhi, and in every world taught this Dharma that is hard to believe. This is extremely difficult.”

Invincible_summer

According to DT Suzuki's "Buddha of Infinite Light," the Pure Land and Amida are within us at all times - a "true" recitation of the nembutsu is Amida surfacing in us, and birth in the Pure Land happens in the here and now.

Although Pure Land buddhism (esp Shin) states that it relies on "Other power" (i.e. Amida), the "other" seems to be the Buddha-nature inside of us.

At least that's how I interpreted it.

Ch-an_noob

Thats cool! The 6th Ch'an Patriarch in China, Master Huieng also taught the same thing. "If your mind is pure, then everywhere is pure." He insist that you need to seek the way within rather than out. By seeking the Buddha outside the mind is the wrong practice.

I will post up some of his best lines from the Platform Sutra when I have the chance.