I would appreciate your comments (Theravada standpoint appreciated)

bwnzor

I was raised a Buddhist and have done well in the past.

Lately? eh... lets just say I'm looking to get back =D

I would appreciate your comments on how these beliefs fit into Buddhism

1. Personal Responsibility

I believe that hard work should be rewarded. If one wants to maintain a certain standard of living, he/she should work towards it instead of having a sense of entitlement and demanding it. Taking it a step further, for industrialized nations (I live in America where education is almost free): I think that if you don't take steps to obtain the skillset you need to live the way you want, you shouldn't be demanding anything from other people (i.e.: taxpayers).

Does this conflict with any principles? Perhaps the Metta?

2. Seeking Fortune

Lets just say I'm success hungry. I spend many hours researching/analyzing/forming hypotheses on the stock market. I also worked hard in college to get a stable career. I live way, way, WAY below my means. Every now and then I donate whatever I can (random homeless dudes, monasteries, Haiti, etc.). I do the stocks for self gratification and eventually financial independence, rather than material possessions (the most expensive thing I own is my $400 laptop). I hope this doesn't come off as shameless self-promotion... I just want to tell you my situation.

Does this conflict with anything?

3. Buddhist Traditions

I visit my local Buddhist monastery fairly often, but find that I cannot connect with the monk. Most of this is because of the language barrier. I also find that alot of the customs are "doing for the sake of doing". For example, alot of the chants are in pali. I have had them explained to me before in a Buddhist camp as a kid, so I know what some of them mean. However, sometimes the monk goes off on very long and fast monologues in Pali. I ask people what they mean. No one really knows. So, we have listened to him rant just for the sake of it.

Any comments? Does anyone know of an english speaking monastery in the Southern Cali area?

Any help would be appreciated. Yes, I am in the middle of some soul searching. Yes, I am pretty young. Possibly yes, I do have too much time on my hands =D

BrotherBob

Hi bwnzor,

1. & 2. - I imagine not

3. http://www.watmetta.org/ , http://here-and-now.org/IMSB/pages/IMSB.home.html

Shalom and Hugs

bwnzor

Thanks, Brother Bob!

GeminiVI

Regarding number one, I would just like to note that if the poor cannot afford schooling and the rich can, you basically create an oligarchy. Also I don't think you appreciate the causal circumstances that produces an individual to become either poor or wealthy.

With number two, you're seeking satisfaction from the material world. You're mired in the illusion of the concept of success. This will perpetuate the concept of self, which will result in suffering.

As for number three, Buddhist traditions have been adapted from culture to culture as it spread east from India (now Nepal).

For more info about how the traditions have been adapted read:
Teachings in Chinese Buddhism Chapter 6

bwnzor

Thanks GeminiVI

I totally agree with the free schooling system. I think the way I worded may have made it seem otherwise. I mentioned it because I think if someone thinks he is too poor, we have a free education system in which he can better himself.

I will definitely think about your feedback. Regarding #2, do you think all Buddhists should not seek material wealth?

GeminiVI

I'm a little short on time, so I'll have to follow this up later. Hopefully someone can post a parable to illustrate the point I'm about to make. It's not that one should or shouldn't seek material wealth, but all Buddhists should understand and see through the illusions we treat as concrete absolutes. Your concept of "wealth" is as "real" as the concept of a "computer mouse". There is no such thing as a "computer mouse", it's just plastic, silicon, and other miscellaneous materials arranged in such as way as to interface with a computer.

I've gotta run, so I'll try and come back and finish this up later.

(edit)

Continuing where I left off... Before 1981 there wasn't such a thing as a "computer mouse". In much the same way the concept of "wealth", "freedom" and "nation state" have come into being via human invention. One core aspect of Buddhism is seeing through these conceptual "dusts" to the "true self".

I once read somewhere that there are three things that lead to happiness. The first is happiness gained through accomplishment, which fades quickly, further perpetuates worldly achievements, and can bolster the ego and sense of self. The second type of happiness is that obtained through sensual pleasure, which works like a drug whose affects require greater and greater doses to achieve an equal or lesser high. Take for example music or video games, which eventually tire out and a newer stimulus is needed to achieve an equal or comparable effect. Also happiness gained through sensual desires have the downside of creating longing, while failing to accomplish something can create disappointment. The final type of happiness is that which is obtained through the Dharma. It creates a sense of peace and contentment, of which no external stimulus is depended upon, and a sense of well being which you carry with you at all times.

DhammaDhatu

bwnzor wrote: »

1. Personal Responsibility

I believe that hard work should be rewarded. If one wants to maintain a certain standard of living, he/she should work towards it instead of having a sense of entitlement and demanding it. Taking it a step further, for industrialized nations (I live in America where education is almost free): I think that if you don't take steps to obtain the skillset you need to live the way you want, you shouldn't be demanding anything from other people (i.e.: taxpayers).

No conflict here.

See: Anana Sutta: Debtless and Maha-mangala Sutta: Blessings

2. Seeking Fortune

Lets just say I'm success hungry. I spend many hours researching/analyzing/forming hypotheses on the stock market. I also worked hard in college to get a stable career. I live way, way, WAY below my means. Every now and then I donate whatever I can (random homeless dudes, monasteries, Haiti, etc.). I do the stocks for self gratification and eventually financial independence, rather than material possessions (the most expensive thing I own is my $400 laptop). I hope this doesn't come off as shameless self-promotion... I just want to tell you my situation.

Fine by the Buddha. See Sigalovada Sutta: The Discourse to Sigala

The wise and virtuous shine like a blazing fire.
He who acquires his wealth in harmless ways
like to a bee that honey gathers,
riches mount up for him
like ant hill's rapid growth.

With wealth acquired this way,
a layman fit for household life,
in portions four divides his wealth:
thus will he friendship win.

One portion for his wants he uses,
two portions on his business spends,
the fourth for times of need he keeps.

For a full summarised list of the Theravadin teachings about earning a living, see pages 49 t0 54 at this link.

DhammaDhatu

bwnzor wrote: »

Any help would be appreciated. Yes, I am in the middle of some soul searching. Yes, I am pretty young. Possibly yes, I do have too much time on my hands =D

Hi friend

Spending your day on the stock market trading is a "dry" way to earn a living. No interaction with people, not giving to others such as in client service, not directly benefiting society, always thinking about profit and minimises losses, looking for the next trade, etc.

So my opinion, if you are earning a living in this way, which positively is independent & potentially lucrative, you must develop your spiritual life, especially generosity, giving to friends, family, the needy, monastaries, charities, etc. Also meditation, exercise, nature walks, etc.

As I said, it is a solitary & "dry" way to earn a living. So your life away from your work becomes important.

Best wishes

DD

bwnzor

Thanks guys, best advice ever! Thanks for links too, will definitely read through. It gets kinda hard when you live in a Christian society and there aren't any Buddhists around.