Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@newbuddhist.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Gay Marriage

edited August 2005 in Buddhism Today
I have seen no discussions on the topic of gay marriage here. Other forums with thousands of people I visited have had good debates about this issue. I will lay down several points and feel free to criticize, commend, comment, or threaten me. :orange:


First of all, I know of buddhists on other forums who have come to Buddhism because it is much more accepting than the stricter western religions. Although I am not friends with any gays personally, I became very sympathetic of them around elections last year. I have no problem with someone being gay, and other than bible quoting, I have seen no evidence of such lifestyle being immoral in any way. And I have nothing against them joining the military or getting married either.

Am I too liberal here? Non-traditionalist? I am taught in school that homosexuals should not act upong their impulses.

Do gays choose who they are attracted to or are they born like this? Input appreciated...

Comments

  • edited August 2005
    Sorry, could someone move this to lotus lounge? I put this topic in the wrong place!
  • BrianBrian Moderator Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited August 2005
    Actually, I'll move it to "Buddhism and the modern world" since this is somewhat of a 'hot button' issue.

    Look, what purpose does it serve to tell others who they can and cannot "marry"? The whole marriage construct is just something created by either religious or legal entities anyway. If you pare it down, marriage ultimately means nothing.

    Asking "what does buddhism say about gay marriage" basically creates an assumption that some nebulous body called 'buddhism' has anything to say about any sort of behavior that individuals participate in. It is not in anybody's best interest to tell others what to do or how to live, most especially about personal choices. In fact, for a buddhist to tell somebody else what they can and cannot do is the antithesis of the buddhist path.

    On a side note: What in the hell kind of a school do you go to where they talk about homosexuality like that? That's completely disgusting that they would dare say homosexuals "should not act upon their impulses." I weep for my country when I hear things like this :(
  • edited August 2005
    It seems to me that one of the main reasons the religious right is trying to keep homosexuals from getting married is it would shatter the image that they try to spread that homosexuals are immoral sex craving maniacs that would try to hump your children if they had the chance. The idea that there can be monogamous homosexual couples would blow alot of thier arguements against homosexuality out of the water.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited August 2005
    I love gay dance clubs. Numbers in Michigan used to be an awesome place ;) . People are born how they are born. If they are attracted to the same sex, who cares? That's reality. Nothing I say or do can change the way the universe works.

    It's just another label. White, black, gay, straight, goth, prep, hippie, good, bad, pro-this, anti-that....etc. Just another word for another way to separate ourselves. We are all humans. We are all trapped in samsara. No difference at all when you really think about it.

    There is nothing in Buddhism that says anything negative about same sex partners, and I don't waste my time worrying about how to separate people more from me than they already are. I could care less. I think that anyone should be able to marry anybody else that they are in love with (as long as they are mentally competent and of legal age of course).
  • edited August 2005
    I go to a Franciscan Catholic School. Very little was said on the subject other than "the church says they can not act upon it." The Cleveland diocese (of which I am not fond of) has been sheltering child molesters for decades and yet it seems that two perfectly happy gay people are looked down upon.

    What I don't understand is why these big stuffed shirt politicians are concerned about who marries who and yet we have no problem in having hundreds or thousands of nuclear missles that could destroy the world and we sell these nuclear materials to people overseas.

    I was called many harsh names last year about my essay final when I chose to write about this topic. But many famous people are or were gay...Alexander the Great, Ian McKellan, Ellen Degeneras, and many more. Not to mentions the several 100,000 homosexuals murdered in the holocaust. That's why you see the pink triangles in their parades. They were forced to wear these in the camps. Of course you were even worse in Nazi Germany if you wore a pink star of David in the camps.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited August 2005
    Well, I've got to give you some well deserved 'props' for writing your essay on such a controversial topic for Catholic school. :) Must take a lot of courage to do that!
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran Veteran
    edited August 2005
    Good Knight!

    I agree with everything you've said. The great thing I've found about Buddhism is no one cares really what your sexual orientation is or your color or your age or whatever. That's not what Buddhism is about. Those are impermanent things that will someday go the way of all impermanent things. A lot of the monks and nuns at our temple are gay, and the reason they're Buddhists is because of that fact. They don't have to worry about being condemned or judged or looked down on. They're just members of the sangha like anybody else. Now, sometimes a sangha member will come out with some anti-gay slur or something, but that is their deluded mind talking. Generally when that happens we'll talk about it and "correct" the attitude. We've had very good success doing that because it has come up a few times with the straight sangha members who probably didn't even realize they had the prejudice in the first place. Once it's pointed out to them, they're almost always receptive and glad to talk about it because they just didn't know.

    As for gay marriage, I have no problem with it nor am I particularly for it. Marriage to me is just another form of attachment, and Buddhism is about cutting attachments to achieve liberation. But hey, if it makes someone happy, no problem. I don't think it'll destroy the moral fabric of the West. Nowhere near as much as George W. and his cronies are anyway! :winkc:

    Palzang
  • edited August 2005
    I got married because I wanted my children to have the same last name as both of their parents. If we weren't going to have children I wouldn't have worried about acquiring the piece of paper saying I'm married. And yes she feels the same way. If I was gay I wouldn't really be concerned with the marriage thing. I don't need the government or a religion to legitimize my relationships. Actually, the less the government has to do with my life the better.
    Basically, I don't care if gays get married or not. I don't care if it's legal or not because I don't think it hurts gays if it is not legal and I don't think it hurts straights if it is legal.
    Much ado about nothing.
  • edited August 2005
    Palzang: We survived Bubba Clinton's rampage through the presidency so I'm confident we'll survive this one too. Much love and sympathy to the Serbian women and children who lost their lives...oops...that's right...the media sorta forgot to report all the gorey details and body counts for that.
  • edited August 2005
    I'm all for gay people having the same rights as straight people - to get married, have/adopt kids, visit each other in the hospital, join the military, etc. It just seems common sense to me. And it doesn't hurt my marriage any if two guys or two gals marry.

    As for whether it's genetic or a choice, or whatever, I figure that sexual tastes are a lot like other tastes. For instance, I absolutely hate fish, but I love chocolate. Some of that's hormonal and genetic - my tongue might pick up some tastes others don't and vice versa, and my dad was a chocoholic. But a piece of it's environmental - I didn't start having nausea at the sight of some foods till they were literally forced down my throat. Whatever the exact combination of nature and nurture, I don't ask to crave chocolate and at times I do wish I liked fish since it would be healthier to eat some seafood. Coincidentally, many religions have codes about eating that are just as judgemental as those about sex. I both cases, I think everyone needs to make their own decisions about what they want and what they believe is right, and then let others make their own decisions. Can you imagine if they outlawed chocolate where you live? That's hard enough. Now why should we outlaw two adults from having the relationship they want?
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran Veteran
    edited August 2005
    I agree, Batman, that it is much ado about not very much. I also think the government shouldn't be in the practice of legislating morality and that people should be allowed to pretty much make their own decisions as long as they're not hurting anybody. Gay marriage is, however, an important issue to some gay people. Remember, some gay couples do have children, whether from a former straight marriage or through adoption, so that is an important issue in that respect as to the welfare of the children growing up without the legal protection of marriage as far as medical insurance, what happens when one parent dies, who gets rights to the child and that sort of thing. It's more than just about children also. There's legal issues involving all sorts of things, such as medical insurance (gay partners are not covered in most states), the right to who gives permission in the case of a medical situation where the person cannot themselves state their wishes, such as in several cases where the gay partners of people in terminal comas were not allowed to make a decision to pull the plug or not but rather the nearest living relative was allowed, and often there are very significant differences between what the partner (and the person at issue) might want compared to what the family might want. So there are lots of issues that are important to people involved in a loving relationship that happens to be gay that haven't been resolved because of the government's overly traditional Christian-oriented views that play well with the electorate but don't incorporate all the needs of all the people.
  • SabineSabine Veteran Veteran
    edited August 2005
    I go to a Franciscan Catholic School. Very little was said on the subject other than "the church says they can not act upon it." The Cleveland diocese (of which I am not fond of) has been sheltering child molesters for decades and yet it seems that two perfectly happy gay people are looked down upon.

    What I don't understand is why these big stuffed shirt politicians are concerned about who marries who and yet we have no problem in having hundreds or thousands of nuclear missles that could destroy the world and we sell these nuclear materials to people overseas.

    I was called many harsh names last year about my essay final when I chose to write about this topic. But many famous people are or were gay...Alexander the Great, Ian McKellan, Ellen Degeneras, and many more. Not to mentions the several 100,000 homosexuals murdered in the holocaust. That's why you see the pink triangles in their parades. They were forced to wear these in the camps. Of course you were even worse in Nazi Germany if you wore a pink star of David in the camps.
    Heeeey, we're the same age, cool! ^_^ And I guess that I'm extremely lucky--my parents decided at the last minute to let me go to the public magnet school instead of Saint Aquinas High :uphand:
    It's too bad that your personality and beliefs are being so stifled in that environment. :( I got some flack last year during the presidential election--I guess I might have gotten too enthusiastic :p I wore all blue on the day of the mock election, made little signs to go on my locker, got pins and stuff for me and my friends, etc. :p Anyway, I saw people's REAL selves come out that day. You'd be shocked at some of the things tenth graders can say. :(
    And I'm all for gay marriage. My best friend is gay, and he's one of the most moral people I know.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran Veteran
    edited August 2005
    But I think we're forgetting that while "we" don't have a problem with gay/lesbian marriage - gays and lesbians still cannot marry.

    They don't receive the same tax breaks, insurance benefits, laws that protect the spouse in case they become widowed, etc.

    I honestly think that most gays don't really care what we think about them. I don't think they worry about labels or acceptance in society. By the time they've come out in the open and stated their sexual preference - their probably long past worrying about what someone else thinks about them.

    But I could be wrong :)

    They just want the same protection that hetrosexual marriages have enjoyed for a long time.

    -bf
Sign In or Register to comment.