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Physiological suffering?
ravkes
Veteran
Just curious about what Buddhism has to say about serious illness, sensory pain, disease. Basically the "real" bodily/sensational pain that is inevitable. How does Buddhism deal with this type of suffering.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
0
Comments
the Buddha taught that we should practice so that "although the body may be afflicted, the mind will be at peace." physical pain is inevitable. Mental clinging is true suffering.
Physical pain and illness are real and arise due to the nature of impermanence. Because of birth, aging, sickness, separation and death is inevitable. This is suffering in the conventional sense that all sentients are subjected to.
In the ultimate sense suffering exists but there is no one who suffers. The sense of me, you, them and it are mental constructs but not the ultimate reality.
:smilec:
Karma isn't a punishment system.
I recall a couple of years or so ago when I first started looking at internet Buddhist groups, seeing some Tibetan Buddhist practitioners advising people who were sick with serious illnesses to do purification practices instead of seeking medical treatment.
I was deeply disturbed by this, especially as I knew that Tibetan teachers in the west openly seek medical treatment when they're ill, go for health check-ups and advise other people to see a doctor if they're unwell.
We need to use some common sense in these matters and not follow everything we're told like blind sheep.
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ahhh... if this isn't a serpent's cockadoodledoo i don't know what is, even if i'm barking like a monkey
Huh ?
You are drawing a completely mistaken conclusion from my post, PP. I was merely commenting on the contents of your post, not launching a personal attack on you.
There are 3 short articles on karma here which you might find helpful
http://www.unfetteredmind.com/articles/karma.php
Kind regards,
Dazzle
With many kind wishes to you.
Dazzle
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Well... let me answer this differently... not what Buddhism says... but what I'll do as a lay Buddhist:
(1) Seek medical help.
(2) Practice mindfulness (including mindfulness meditation).
I think Vipassana meditation is the most appropriate here.
that is, who is more drunk in samsara, a man taken by wine, or a woman taken by other desires?
but anyways thank you for the article. i read over it and though i was still a little drunk, i understood at least most of it. i will read it again (maybe) when i am "sober", what is usually called it. there is an elusive understanding in intoxication that escapes sobriety, and the greatest intoxicant is delusion, neither is greater than the other and nothing and none of us ever have be, has been, will ought. (ah ha ha, sorry, i am just having fun with word games)
anyways, i read over the article and still do not understand the distinction between causation and growth. they seem intertwined. but, i know that my drunkenness is not all that keen, so i'll look at it again tomorrow, or just wait for subsequent posts to elaborate upon it.
but what i was thinking was, and this is an echo of some of my thoughts i was thinking earlier, was that there is no "karma is punishment" or "karma is not punishment", they are both correct incorrect neither and both and nothing at all at all the same time. maybe the ego perceives a punitive operation at work in the mind, but that does not mean that is correct, transcendentally. but what is the ego then, even if an illusion? isn't it too a reality? isn't its reality an unreality? isn't attitude everything and thus everything is attitude and everything is everyTHING? ah ha ha ha ha ha, oh dear, my pardons for any absurdities i've spun, but at least i'm having fun
What do you mean? Avoid in what way? I'm not sure what that has to do with my response.
Then how does it follow that "life is suffering"?
Life is Nibbana. It's just clouded by the illusion of samsara; it's only suffering when there is clinging, greed/aversion/delusion.
Physical pain does not endanger us. The pain is an idication that something is wrong, so that, contrary to what you've suggested, we can survive. Physical pain is necessary to survival. Sometimes it's even a side effect of taking measures to survive, such as surgery/certain medical treatments.
Dhamma Dhatu clarified things well.
Holy crap. You're right.. and sorry Dhamma I meant to term it as physical pain. But yes, contrary to what I had said pain actually helps you survive. Wow. It's a warning. Jeez. Thank you guys once again.
I only have one example of how a Buddhist might handle serious illness, which I pass on here:
My sister took lessons from an old Tibetan Tulku for some years until his death. He died of pancreatic cancer. His last class was 4 days before his death. Throughout the time of his illness, except for one instance, he never gave any indication that he was in pain or that he was physically debilitated, nor did he ever appear to be medicated. This is what happened on that "one instance" ...
In the middle of a teaching, he closed his eyes and sat quietly for a few minutes. Then he opened his eyes, gave a little smile, and said he had been talking to his teachers ... and continued on with his teachings.
This is how one Buddhist handled serious illness.
That's pretty badass. I bet that guy was just uber fully aware every moment of his existence so his illness was just poop on his shoe. Nice, thanks for sharing that and thank you for answering my post again.
As a nurse, it tells me there is something wrong with a patient and it needs attention. In that sense, pain is a good thing. I shattered a vertebrae in my spine. After 5 years, I've only had one or two days where I wasn't in a level of pain that I barely noticed. Since I want to participate in society, I need to find something better than pain killers. I'm taking the advice of my physicians, and friends on this site to attack it from different angles. If I can get to the point that I can handle a high level of pain ("severe" we would call it in my field), it just might help with other areas in my life.
One thing I would caution people on though. Use common sense. If you are doing something that is exacerbating (making worse) a symptom, STOP DOING IT! Find ways to modify movements in order to do the activities you need and want to do. Ask your physician or physical therapist what you can do to help yourself along with meditation. When I tell doctors that I am applying meditation again, they are thrilled to hear it. Taking responsibility for your own health care helps your perception of your illness. It will take time as mine is. Some days, I'm not as positive about it. This morning, I am! But know, you only get this moment. I try to be more positive and get the current 24 hours, but that's the 12 stepper in me. I'm hoping to walk to a meeting later today. We will see if I can do it.
Ridiculous man, I hope that you get better. I find myself being bothered over the most trivial things and you can't even walk to a meeting without hurting. That's some real shit bro. Take it easy.
I really don't know ... the story raises more questions than answers, but I'm comfortable with that.
In the case of chest pain, it is a sign that there is not enough oxygen to the heart. Many people do not live through heart attacks. In this case, it can kill you if you ignore it, even though I agree that the etiology of the pain is the cause.
Pain experienced over long periods does affect quality of life. It is not uncommon for people who have experienced pain for long periods to commit suicide as they can no longer deal with it.
By the way, I made it to the meeting that day. I stopped at Barnes and Noble on the way home and browsed and then went home. I'm trying to walk some every day to build up my tolerance. Plus, getting rid of some of the weight from being sedentary will help also.