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Belief and Buddhism
Hi everyone,
It often seems to me that Buddhism involves a lot of belief in things that seem to have no value to me. Actually, I don't really value any belief. I've been thinking about joining a Buddhist monastery in the near future, but I don't want to believe in things, I want to gain understanding.
I guess it's hard to draw the line between believing and understanding. When you've gained understanding, you'd still have to believe in it. But believing in things like rituals or the existence of Buddha seems pointless when my goal is to achieve understanding.
Do all Buddhist monasteries partake in things like rituals and honoring Buddha or is this sometimes not the case or only optional?
Thanks in advance!
It often seems to me that Buddhism involves a lot of belief in things that seem to have no value to me. Actually, I don't really value any belief. I've been thinking about joining a Buddhist monastery in the near future, but I don't want to believe in things, I want to gain understanding.
I guess it's hard to draw the line between believing and understanding. When you've gained understanding, you'd still have to believe in it. But believing in things like rituals or the existence of Buddha seems pointless when my goal is to achieve understanding.
Do all Buddhist monasteries partake in things like rituals and honoring Buddha or is this sometimes not the case or only optional?
Thanks in advance!
0
Comments
Why would you join a monastery if you don't believe in what they are based upon?
In order to understand something you perceive it and analyze it. There is belief that you perception is correct, and that you analysis was not flawed.
Don't know. What do you believe you can get from a monastery experience?
Perhaps "blindly believing" would be a better term. I don't want to talk myself into believing things like reincarnation, simply because my understanding tells me that this is a subject I can never fully understand.
I believe that a monastery is a great place to practice Buddhism, because everything needed is available. I could live in solitude and follow my own path, but I think all the other complications this will bring will make it very hard.
Doesn't that sort of fly in the face of what monasteries are all about?
And meditation, which seems quite vital to Buddhism, is also a form of solitude.
I think you should find a monastery and go there a few times, and attend a buddhist center a few times. There you should see if people are really doing things in such a ritualized way, and whether or not there is an explanation for it.
Talk to a monk and ask how is his routine to see if it conforms to your expectations.
If you are still interested be a regular of the center\monastery, take a few retreats, and than you can have a more solid decision.
Nameless River advises you well!
Remember, though, that every monastery is erected by a particular tradition, and it is set up for its residents to live by that tradition. My teacher (from Namgyal monastery) says that the best lessons are learned from the annoyances of living with each other.
I do not know of any "free-form" monasteries.
How do you experience these traditions. Do you find the rituals you perform to be in any way helpful in understanding Buddhism? I just can't really see the relevance of these traditions to Buddhism. It's not that I would be incapable of performing rituals, it's just that I don't really want to partake in things I don't understand.
I also believe that communication is a very effective way to gain understanding. Besides that, I'm sure there's about as much chance that solitude would result in madness then it would in understanding
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
I don't think it would hurt to understand the things that some buddhist practice, and if you don't agree with it, fine, be that as it may... but it never hurts to learn why people do the things they do.
And by the way... there are plenty of buddhists, even on this site, that don't believe in reincarnation/ rebirth or Karma merely because they do not see how you can prove it, etc. The buddha would rather you question the teachings and see the truth for yourself, than blindly believing in things. That is not what buddhism is about.
Best of luck, I hope you find a good monastery and are able to practice buddhism in a way that is suiting to you.
Ashley
I'm sure that each monastery also contains many different views on Buddhism. I believe that Buddhism is about finding your own path, and it's a shame that a lot of monasteries don't seem to stimulate this fully, but stick to pointless traditions instead.
Thank you, I wish you the same.
Then why follow a buddhist path?
We all learn from our experiences. Experiencing it might change your mind.
Nios.
just keep aside such 'rituals' for the time and continue your efforts to see whether there is any truth in Lord Buddha's Teaching
for this you can read materials, listen to dhamma talks and think further 'within your capacity'
what others do is their own business
in terms of Buddha's Teaching it is their own kamma and kamma vipaka (cause and effect theory)
we do not know their intention of doing such 'rituals' to judge them upon 'what we see' or 'what we hear'
defenitely worring about such things do not conducive to our practise
when our practise improves we will be able to understand the value of such 'rituals'
it is guranteed!!!
The hope is that you will have moments of no ego that wake you up to how things could be. But thats a long shot isn't it?
You can also use beliefs practice to work with your beliefs. A bit like unclogging the drain of your thougts. Getting some of that kleshsa to loosen up so you can get that moment of no ego. But you have to come in hard and work with the beliefs and then let go and let go of belief. Otherwise the rod you are using to unstuck the thoughts gets stuck itself.
I think a monastery with a teacher may know about how the true nature of mind is behind the conditioned thoughts. In which case the contact with the teacher and working with the beliefs will be helpful. And if you get the rod stuck in the drain or choke on the rod or get angry at the rod.... the teacher will have good advice for you.
Beliefs can also give energy to your practice. Just essence practice can get a little dry.
I thought that this is what meditation was for, but perhaps rituals can be like a form of meditation, however. And perhaps different forms of meditation can give more insight. I guess I'm just making a big deal out of something that won't affect my experience in a Buddhist monastery (in a negative way) anyway.
I think you are right, I'll be better of with a teacher either way, whether some of the beliefs I'll get to experience don't seem to suit me or not.
I think I'm just afraid that my belief can end up as a "blind belief". I know some Christians with great minds and I always wonder how they can be so certain of something that can't be understood with certainty. This makes me wonder why I would be any different; why would I be less vulnerable to beliefs?
Your attitude is fine. The best monastaries for you would be those part of the Forest Sangha or something Zen. For example, in Thailand, many of the famous meditation masters of the 20th century did not have or allow Buddha images in their monasteries.
Kind regards
DD
Oh, I was pulled into Tibetan Buddhism, a very very traditional-full tradition! It chose me, not the other way around, and I have chosen to honor it, even though I am basically an anti-tradition, questioning sceptic and some of it (ritual) seems just ... too way out. However, over the decade I have practiced Buddhism, both my behaviors and my understandings have changed in ways that were never accomplished by decades of practicing yoga. Maybe the rituals of Tibetan Buddhism operate subliminally?
In a practice monastery, there are times for solitude and times for community things.
In a practice monastery, everyone generally follows the same path, which is doing things like meditation or work so they get in touch with their own mind.
"Your own path" is something internal rather than external.
Externally, it looks like everyone is following the same path. But internally, indeed, it is your own path.
Apart from that, Buddha did not want us to worship him in a superstitious or 'personal' way.
Buddha taught non-attachment. When one bows to Buddha, one can also do so as like a joke between friends. Both you and the Buddha dwelling in non-attachment and mutual enlightenment.
Buddha is emptiness.
Buddha isn't relevant to Buddhism, just like the New Testament has no relevance to the original teachings of the bible. Honoring something is one of the strongest attachments man can have, so I believe it should never be stimulated in Buddhism.
I think by tradition she was refering to the different schools of Buddhism. DDhatu's suggestions seem to suit you well. As far as rituals go, some view them literally and in a mystical way while others see them simply as tools. Personally I still keep a Tibetan altar and make offerings but this is simply to set a compassionate state of mind and proper focus for the day. Still ritual isn't for everyone. It's all just different learning aids in the end.
As far as honouring goes... It's simply about showing gratitude and humility. Without the Buddha we would no guidance on the path to nibbana, no aid in understanding the nature of dukkha and how to better our lives. You don't need to bow. Just generate gratitude and show your thanks through practice.
Although I don't belive in any "magic" aspects to Buddhism I do chant, recite the three jewels etc in a way from the outside would look like prayer or some other ritual.
To me such "rituals" are about connecting with the idea of the Buddha, his discoveries, his teachings. In a sense they are focuses. The same with the many Buddha figures I have all over my house, they hold no intrinsic specialness but they are always there to remind me and correct me when my mind flutters to the negative or unhelpful, as minds often do:)