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A survey question for New Buddhists...

MatSaltedMatSalted
edited February 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Hi,

Do you believe that if there was no Buddha there would be no Dharma?

:)

Mat

Comments

  • StephenStephen
    edited January 2010
    The Dhamma is reality as it stands regardless of whether or not we realize it. The Buddha said such himself; he was only showing others the way. Dhamma = Reality.

    That is not to say the Buddha-Dhamma is the perfect representation. It may have flaws, but let's not get into that again. ;) It's still the best we have.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 2010
    I look at the dharma as accurate teachings from someone who knows the nature of the world.

    So I agree with both of the previous answers in a way...

    The dharma is simply an accurate teaching on reality BUT a buddha is necessary to see that reality clearly. As relevent to certain posters on this forum :D I think it is possible to read the dharma but not understand it. Which is what we do until we become a buddha. At which point we don't need the dharma!
  • ZenBadgerZenBadger Derbyshire, UK Veteran
    edited January 2010
    So are we saying that the Dharma is like a law of nature, if the Buddha had not made it accessible to us then the truth would still be there and may have been discovered bit by bit as we went along? That is what I understood to be the case, a bit like relativity still being there is there had been no Einstein; eventually someone would have had to make a guess at what was going on in order to make sense of the universe.
  • Now-Is-realityNow-Is-reality
    edited January 2010
    Mat, what does it matter if the dharma existed before the buddha discovered it? Just out of curiosity... I still think Buddha Dharma is a good way to discover the truth and be free of suffering, or at least a good guide with what we have been given.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited January 2010
    ZenBadger wrote: »
    So are we saying that the Dharma is like a law of nature, if the Buddha had not made it accessible to us then the truth would still be there and may have been discovered bit by bit as we went along? That is what I understood to be the case, a bit like relativity still being there is there had been no Einstein; eventually someone would have had to make a guess at what was going on in order to make sense of the universe.

    Yes, thats what I think.

    There was Dharma before Buddha.
    There would be Dharma without Buddha.

    Why is it seen so ignorant to ask what dharma is outside of the Buddhist context?

    I just dont get it:)
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited January 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »
    Hi,

    Do you believe that if there was no Buddha there would be no Dharma?

    :)

    Mat

    Dhamma is in front of us always but we are not wise enough to see
    Siddhartha ascetic was wise to see it first and show others 'how to see it' and that first wise person is Buddha
    the wise people after him who see Dhamma with his guidance called Sangha (stream winners, once returners, non returners and Arahants)


    there are 'pacceka Buddhas' who see Dhamma without the help of a Buddha but they can not teach to others, it says
  • sukhitasukhita
    edited January 2010
    It seems that:

    The Dhamma is a reality or path that is written into the very structure of our existence. The Buddha (Gotama) had simply discovered this path of "great antiquity" which other Buddhas (his predecessors) taught an immeasurably long time ago; but this "ancient trail" had faded over the years and been entirely forgotten. The teaching of Gotama Buddha will similarly fade away and also be forgotten. When this happens, the future Buddha (Maitreya) will "rediscover" the Dhamma once again.

    Based on the above, we need Buddhas to "discover" the Dhamma each time it fades away and is forgotten. But the above may be a myth... I don't really know. :)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited January 2010
    Remember that the dharma is just pointing at reality.. It is not reality itself. Your own experience is reality. Just its confused. So the dharma is encouragement to see that confusion clearly. Finger and moon.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited February 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    Remember that the dharma is just pointing at reality.. It is not reality itself. Your own experience is reality. Just its confused. So the dharma is encouragement to see that confusion clearly. Finger and moon.

    Some believe that Dharma is the foundational reality that is true of all systems and our experience and investigations are distinct from that:)

    Mat
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