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Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi
I am starting this thread in hopes of finding a real answer to a real question that burns on my consiousness. I am going to descreibe a real experience that actualy happened. As of yet I am at a loss as to what it means or how to use it. I hope and long for your help.
The experience I am going to descreibe is genuine and there is no way that my mouth can discribe it apart from metaphore, dramatization of lesser terms, and intelectual sophistry. So please, I beg you, excuse the the former faults.
Here it is. This happened while I was reading and trying to understand the heart suttra. I believe that it was on the line " O Sariputra all dharmas are marked with<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>
Emptiness, they have no beginning and no end, they are neither imperfect nor<O:P> </O:P>
perfect, neither deficient nor complete. Therefore O Sariputra, in emptiness<O:P> </O:P>
there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no name, no concepts, no<O:P> </O:P>
knowledge."
There is no me. And yet to spite all reason, I am all that exists.
The universe of seen and unseen, is a humming, seething, vat of timeless energy. This energy is eternal, primodialy undefiled, and and constantly in a passively and beautifully violent state change. The realm of maya knows no permanance. It is at the whims of the energy that creates and distroys it in the same breath. And all of this centerless, seamless mass of light and lunacy, form and formless, is a trick of my small mind and the creation of my big mind. As the light of the real and the imagination coalesce, (who knows which is which). They create and redifine my world. I see no me anywhere, and yet I am, and always was all that is and its cause and I now realize that I always will be this way.
This is the verbaly botched essence of my realization. At this time in a fit of makyo I explode out of myself and turn about. I see me in that moment and proclaim to my self "you are samantabhadra". I, young and inexperienced in practice have no idea what that means. I have never hearrd of samantabhadra but inevetably I feel the significance.
An hour or so passed. Immersed in bliss literaly to the point of trancending consciousness, I began to think of the people around me. There were a few, and as I looked I felt love and compassion like I had never known. I took myself away from them. And prayed for what ever it was that gave me this "take this from me and give it too someone who needs it more than I do. There are a ton of them". Three days passed. I slept and woke to the feeling of bliss the first night. The next night I slept and woke again. The second day I felt angry at the fact that the bliss was still there and not with someone else. And the thid day I woke and it was gone.
I understand that enlightenment is possible. I realize that makyo is an enemy of true realization. This is true. The preoccupation with samantabhadra is decidedly malignant. But none the less I feel that this experience is a genuine satori. The problem is that at the time I got it I had been practicing meditation for less that one year, without a teacher. To me this is troubleing. Why that atainment at that time with that name attatched to it?
The question here is, am I a reincarnate or just realized? and
Too what degree is that enlightenment?
I ask only thoes who know because we are surrounded by them
I ask in sencerity and (hopefully) humility
Please excuse the dramatization if it is not to your taste. I only hoped to capture the essence of the state and the power of the bliss that ensued. (Were it stronger I honestly feel that I would not have hands with which to type because they would have most likely disolved.) no joke.
Thank you kindly
Love
Alex
The experience I am going to descreibe is genuine and there is no way that my mouth can discribe it apart from metaphore, dramatization of lesser terms, and intelectual sophistry. So please, I beg you, excuse the the former faults.
Here it is. This happened while I was reading and trying to understand the heart suttra. I believe that it was on the line " O Sariputra all dharmas are marked with<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>
Emptiness, they have no beginning and no end, they are neither imperfect nor<O:P> </O:P>
perfect, neither deficient nor complete. Therefore O Sariputra, in emptiness<O:P> </O:P>
there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no name, no concepts, no<O:P> </O:P>
knowledge."
There is no me. And yet to spite all reason, I am all that exists.
The universe of seen and unseen, is a humming, seething, vat of timeless energy. This energy is eternal, primodialy undefiled, and and constantly in a passively and beautifully violent state change. The realm of maya knows no permanance. It is at the whims of the energy that creates and distroys it in the same breath. And all of this centerless, seamless mass of light and lunacy, form and formless, is a trick of my small mind and the creation of my big mind. As the light of the real and the imagination coalesce, (who knows which is which). They create and redifine my world. I see no me anywhere, and yet I am, and always was all that is and its cause and I now realize that I always will be this way.
This is the verbaly botched essence of my realization. At this time in a fit of makyo I explode out of myself and turn about. I see me in that moment and proclaim to my self "you are samantabhadra". I, young and inexperienced in practice have no idea what that means. I have never hearrd of samantabhadra but inevetably I feel the significance.
An hour or so passed. Immersed in bliss literaly to the point of trancending consciousness, I began to think of the people around me. There were a few, and as I looked I felt love and compassion like I had never known. I took myself away from them. And prayed for what ever it was that gave me this "take this from me and give it too someone who needs it more than I do. There are a ton of them". Three days passed. I slept and woke to the feeling of bliss the first night. The next night I slept and woke again. The second day I felt angry at the fact that the bliss was still there and not with someone else. And the thid day I woke and it was gone.
I understand that enlightenment is possible. I realize that makyo is an enemy of true realization. This is true. The preoccupation with samantabhadra is decidedly malignant. But none the less I feel that this experience is a genuine satori. The problem is that at the time I got it I had been practicing meditation for less that one year, without a teacher. To me this is troubleing. Why that atainment at that time with that name attatched to it?
The question here is, am I a reincarnate or just realized? and
Too what degree is that enlightenment?
I ask only thoes who know because we are surrounded by them
I ask in sencerity and (hopefully) humility
Please excuse the dramatization if it is not to your taste. I only hoped to capture the essence of the state and the power of the bliss that ensued. (Were it stronger I honestly feel that I would not have hands with which to type because they would have most likely disolved.) no joke.
Thank you kindly
Love
Alex
0
Comments
What a beautiful gift! Thank you for sharing.
I imagine not every meditator gets to have such experiences.
I've had some similar very vivid mind shaking stuff happen in training, like the feeling of being 'in bliss literaly' as you write and imagining 'The universe of seen and unseen, is a humming, seething, vat of timeless energy.', which has actually become kind of a perceptual/cognitive filter now, and have gone to my teachers to try to express these things to them. Most often they simply listened attentively, said good, good and told me to let it go and get back to training.
What I've gained from this and other instruction and guidance from my training elders is to understand that all this and similar experience is the play of delusional mind, which is okay! It may be helpful or a hindrance depending
how we work with it.
The primary instruction I've received is to simply take this as another bit of information to be placed in the crucible of contemplation to investigate and verify as to its correctness of understanding based on the Buddhadharma.
So, some Questions to ask may be:
How does this experience connect with:
the Marks?
Satori?
Samantabhadra?
Bliss?
Love?
Compassion?
lots of really good stuff to think about!
And, perhaps, most importantly to let go of and just sit in spacious mind non-attached to any mind play.
Another question I was asked was, What would happen if this kind of thing never happened again?
What would you feel like and what would you do?
Alex, I feel happy reading about your experience because I imagine it as a potential doorway to deeper practice and transformation. Will you please pass beyond that door and follow the path of practice to the next one?
I feel that the next time that this will happen will be in my next life as a reminder of my enlightenment. But I certainly feel that similar experiences can and will happen. When they do I will obvioulsy be extatic and grateful and try as i have to learn from them.
This happened several years ago and I am still trying to integrate that experience into my practice. The wisdom gained there is astounding.
The other interesting thing about this experience is that after the bliss left. My friends who were new aquaintences at that point, who new next to nothing about me immediately started calling me buddha and bodhi as a nickname. This was odd to me and I did not understand the significance of the term bodhi.
This leads me to believe that i am a reincanate of samantabhadra. I feel that it is also possible that there are many reincarnations of it. But I am still trying to integrate the significance of that into my practice without ego.
Thanks
alex
Your experience is not unique or special. Your insight is not unique or special. You are not spiritually elect or special.
You are a regular guy who had an ordinary opening or insight and is seizing upon it. You need a teacher.
I just feel lucky is all
and I think that though satori is ordinary, the essence of this is extraordinary.
We are all buddhas, we are all bodhisattvas. But some do not realize the truth or the gravity of that fact. I am lucky enough to have seen a glimpse of that truth.
I has inspired me in many ways and has caused me to develop further my equinimity, compassion, love and mindfullness.
I agree wholeheartedly with Richard. I'm really happy that you had and may have 'opening experiences', as Richard aptly calls them, such as; '...there is no separation between me and anything. And in the light of this experience I came to know intuitively that this is true as opposed to the intelectual grasp of the nature of that statement.'
When I read the words; '... do not possess the 32 major and 80 minor marks of a buddha. But I do have some of them.' '... I am a bodhisattva not a buddha.' and '... This leads me to believe that i am a reincanate of samantabhadra.' in the last post you offered I kind of winced in painful concern because I want you to be truly well and happy, will you please, if not find a guide who can help ground you in the training, at least let go of any conceptualization and self identification that you are some kind of reincarnate enlightened being and simply learn to "be", as if you were to the best of your current ability.
I'm not aware of any place in the Buddhadharma where it points to the slightest possibility of one reincarnating as an already identified Buddha or Bodhisattva. One may acquire similar characteristics as those beings, through training; especially with vows, etc - like taking and upholding the vows of Samantrabhada. As I understand it, this is a process of transformation based on close cognitive association and then direct knowing of those qualities in day to day life as a normal human being.
Again, as I understand these things, visualizing the self as 'being' a Buddha or Bodhisattva is a very powerful and potentially dangerous tantric practice that is only recommended for a few rare individuals capable and prepared for this kind of training under the close direct supervision of a qualified tantric master. And only engaged in as provisional means of acquiring certain characteristics after one correctly understands and knows, by direct experience, all the Mahayana teachings; especially the direct undefiled experiemce of impermanence and no-self.
Historically those who have engaged in these practices without that support have really messed up their lives and basically fallen into madness.
samantabhadra, this is what gives rise to the kind of wincing painful concern I feel when reading what you've shared.
Certainly, I do not really know you. You, in fact, may be a Buddha or Bodhisattva, as you write. Yet, as I imagine what I've heard of such beings, they would not have communicated as you did. Therefor, I imagine you as potentially heading for grave problems, if you continue on training in the state of mind expressed.
I think that's why others on this forum are asking you to please let-go of this stuff and get back to basic training as a beautiful gifted humble human being. Nobody wants to see you harmed by potentially poisonous mental stuff that is unnecessary to reaching enlightenment.
I understand that what I've written may be disagreeable to you, now. Will you please simply contemplate with it and then do as you will.
I wish you well.
I am also glad to hear what you both have said to me. It was the goal of me coming here and speaking about this. I needed validation from another person and you've given it to me. I do feel slightly dissapointed with the truth of the matter, but I suppose that this is the nature of the poison of delusion.
I was also unaware that buddhas and bodhisattvas do not reincarnate. This is helpful to me and I'm sure with time and practice it will not only expel this potential poison but it will also help me to actualize my true self fully.
Thank you
alex
I did not mean to upset or offend if i did. My only goal was to get too the botom of the matter and hopefuly I have.
I'm actually very happy and inspired by your communication here. To this deluded mind you appear a very loving and compassionate being, truly seeking the way.
Thank You sooo much for your sharing here as you have. I will aspire to the example you've given.
On a isde not I have learned much about myself on this thread. Namely the mnifestation of my ego and the importance of right speech
Thank you
Alexander Hall
Om tare tuttare ture mama ayuh punya jnana pustim kuru svaha
There is no ignorance, nor the end of ignorance; up to
alex
Hi Alex. Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not particualrly insightful or compassionate. Its just that someone once said.... "After the ecstasy, the dishes". IMHO The great advantage of having a teacher, and practicing within Sangha (I'm assuming your not, forgive me if I"m jumping to conclusions) is that our experience has a context that keeps us grounded and doing the dishes.