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Video Response to Brian Ruhe on Rebirth

MatSaltedMatSalted
edited February 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Hi Folks

I think video I just recoded pretty much captures my thinking on Rebirth:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqXfTN9Pn90

It is a response to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC41hpd0_X0

Thanks

Mat

Comments

  • NiosNios Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Hi Mat,

    Out of curiosity, What do you believe is a nihilistic view?

    Did you watch all the videos?

    Nios.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited February 2010
    I just checked out your website. It is very interesting. You clearly have very deeply held beliefs and convictions and want them heard. I respect that. While having a different experience of life, and a different understanding, I certainly do not want to change your mind. Do you want to change mine? Thats a freindly question, because the nature of a forum like this can be point and counterpoint, which as you know can devolve into hardened positions. By virtue of the fact I'm saying anything at all, it represents a point of view and I think we all recognize that no-ones view is supreme. I'm just writing this because I was taken aback by that smackdown on your last thread, and didnt realize the degree of rancor that was brewing.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited February 2010
    Nios wrote: »
    Hi Mat,

    Out of curiosity, What do you believe is a nihilistic view?

    Did you watch all the videos?

    Nios.


    Its a view in which life is considered an accident (or joke) and therefore there is no value or purpose, hence the only rational response is suicide or hedonism or apathy etc.

    I think the Middle path shows how emergent values are possible and that these can be overwhelmingly positive which action but will tend to be negative without out:)

    (I only watched that video, assuming he doesn't contradict himself later, my response was to the first part )

    :)

    Mat
  • NiosNios Veteran
    edited February 2010
    I think you should watch the rest as he does address some of the things you spoke about. Although I know you wouldn't agree with them, it seemed a bit obvious that you didn't watch the others.

    Thanks for answering my question though :)

    Nios.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited February 2010
    Richard Herman wrote: »
    I just checked out your website. It is very interesting. You clearly have very deeply held beliefs and convictions and want them heard.

    You know, I wouldn't say my views are that deeply held apart from on what I call "core dharma" which is the 3 Marks to the Eightfold Path.

    My entire responce on this forum and in that video and in otehr discussion has been:

    "You cannot say with certainty that the Buddha believed in Rebirth"

    Not

    "You must not believe in rebirth"

    The distinction is very important:)


    >>>Do you want to change mine?

    NO!

    and

    NO!

    At best I would recommend any Buddhist doubts much more than the traditions we have now maintain we should. But this is no more than you recommending to me how to sit to meditate.

    On rebirth the only certainty is that there is no certainty:) Same with heaven or some quantum void.

    >>>a point of view and I think we all recognize that no-ones view is supreme.

    Completely. I take to heart that the Buddha invites us to question everything, even his teachings:)


    >>I'm just writing this because I was taken aback by that smackdown on your last thread, and didnt realize the degree of rancor that was brewing.

    We should all cultivate Dharma and extinguish Dogma. Sometimes that's hard, with such entrenched views as rebirth and realms. If we do this then it shoudn't matter if people believe in rebirth or not in any wide sense, it becomes a personal choice not a matter of doctrine.

    My personal views are radical, I admit, that does not make them wrong, it also doesn't make them important to anyone else:)

    Thanks

    Mat
  • shenpennangwashenpennangwa
    edited February 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »

    My entire responce on this forum and in that video and in otehr discussion has been:

    "You cannot say with certainty that the Buddha believed in Rebirth"
    The vast majority of modern Buddhist academia would strongly disagree this assertion as many of us on this forum have.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited February 2010
    shenpen nangwa wrote: »
    The vast majority of modern Buddhist academia would strongly disagree this assertion as many of us on this forum have.

    The vast majority of people used to think the world was flat:)
  • shenpennangwashenpennangwa
    edited February 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »
    The vast majority of people used to think the world was flat:)
    so you're just single handedly forming a new paradigm that is contrary to all the established academic study on the topic.
    You are indeed a bold and ingenious man.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited February 2010
    shenpen nangwa wrote: »
    so you're just single handedly forming a new paradigm that is contrary to all the established academic study on the topic.
    You are indeed a bold and ingenious man.

    I believe in the certainty of Dharma, that which the Buddha discovered and taught, that which is centred by The Four Noble Truths, underpinned by The Three Marks of existence and Practised by The Eightfold Path.

    I do not believe in Rebirth, I may be wrong.

    I do not believe the Buddha believed in rebirth, I may be wrong.

    I am slowly getting more sure that the Buddha actually called for a renunciation of Rebirth as the first stage towards Enlightenment, I may be wrong.

    Only the last point could be considered to be a new paradigm, and I'm not sure it is, I would be surprised if I was the first to note it:)

    Mat
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited February 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »
    The vast majority of people used to think the world was flat:)

    An very interesting read

    The Last 10 Seconds of Eternity

    http://www.webmindful.org/last10sec.htm
  • RayfieldNeelRayfieldNeel
    edited February 2010
    I suppose I'm jumping into a conversation uninitiated, but...

    I found Mat's video to be reasonable. I am undecided/agnostic on a number of contentious, spiritual topics, rebirth being one. At this time I don't believe it to be important to the core of my path, which involves dukkha, mindfulness, no-self, impermanence, and the 8-fold path.

    The Buddha was born into the proto-Hindu culture, and the standard paradigm was a belief in rebirth. I don't know that his explorations were designed to challenge that belief, or that he thought it was necessary.

    Obviously I'm not the scholar that many of you are...I'm open to being shown otherwise. :o
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited February 2010
    Seriously: the second a post goes into personal insults/attacks, it's time to close the thread and move on.

    PLEASE try to conduct yourselves like adults. You're embarrassing yourselves.
This discussion has been closed.