Prove to me

Consecrated · February 2010

Peace

Prove to me that Buddhism is the path I should follow

I want reasonable signs and proofs that it is the most righteous path on the planet

Thank you

Now-Is-reality · February 2010

Wait, wait, wait. You need to prove that for yourself! we aren't preachy here

.

Better question for you, why are interested in buddhism? What do you need proved?

RichardH · February 2010

Gee I'm tempted to just have fun with this one but, it deserves a serious response. Most Righteous? It seems that Buddhism isnt particularly Righteous. The scourge of Righteousness is a problem in the world, but Buddism is not a major contributor to this. Prove to you that you should "follow" this path? No, no way.

Consecrated · February 2010

Now-Is-reality wrote: »

Wait, wait, wait. You need to prove that for yourself! we aren't preachy here .

Better question for you, why are interested in buddhism? What do you need proved?

I cannot move without a reason

I'm fed up of searching for a path to follow for years but I cannot stop yet

If I am not going to ever find a reason - I am not going to continue staying in this place, it's simple as that

What are the basics, acts and traditions of Buddhism?

I need proof that this is the path I should follow

Richard Herman wrote: »

Gee I'm tempted to just have fun with this one but, it deserves a serious response.

I'll only bother with positive and serious replies

Richard Herman wrote: »

Prove to you that you should "follow" this path? No, no way.

Then I won't bother as well since I'm here for useful and informative replies

RichardH · February 2010

No one is going to try and convince you why you should be a Buddhist practitioner. Thats not how it is, and any one, frankly, who goes around trying to convince people they should be Buddhists is off on a tangent of some kind. Good luck

Consecrated · February 2010

Richard Herman wrote: »

Good luck

Thank you

Now-Is-reality · February 2010

Consecrated wrote: »

Then I won't bother as well since I'm here for useful and informative replies

Okay

I have to agree with Richard. But I am sure any of us would be more than willing to offer some advice or answer questions when questions arise.

I will not however tell you "Buddhism is the best because......" for I think that is something that you need to decide for yourself

. I can however, tell you a bit about buddhism.

Buddhist follow the four noble truths and the eight fold path. We do this because it is a way to be rid of suffering. It is a way to reach the middle-way, to live in moderation. Buddhism serves different purposes for different people. If you would like to learn more check out this

Feel free to ask questions to better your understanding.

Kindly,
Ashley

Consecrated · February 2010

Now-Is-reality wrote: »

Okay I have to agree with Richard. But I am sure any of us would be more than willing to offer some advice or answer questions when questions arise.

I will not however tell you "Buddhism is the best because......" for I think that is something that you need to decide for yourself . I can however, tell you a bit about buddhism.

Buddhist follow the four noble truths and the eight fold path. We do this because it is a way to be rid of suffering. It is a way to reach the middle-way, to live in moderation. Buddhism serves different purposes for different people. If you would like to learn more check out this

Feel free to ask questions to better your understanding.

Kindly,
Ashley

Thank you, Ashley

Your post and link were very much appreciated!

I agree with some parts of what Richard have said as well but there is a difference:

i) This time I am someone coming to ask for information from people that follow a path

ii) The other times it's people going to people trying to force them to join their path

So it would be kind of oppressive when I was asking for knowledge from a knowing person and the person wasn't willing to bother with sharing their knowledge with me, wouldn't it?

Jason · February 2010

Welcome to the forum, Consecrated.

Nobody can tell you what path to follow. That's a decision you have to make for yourself.

Buddhism offers a structured approach that's said to lead to the end of suffering and stress, mainly through a combination of self-reflection and empirical observations of human experience. In essence, Buddhism is the study of our perceptions (or impressions) about reality in an effort to remove the suffering that faulty perceptions can create.

There is no empirical proof that Buddhism does what it sets out to do, but there are pragmatic proofs that one can test (e.g., observing the precepts, practicing meditation, developing insight, etc.). It's up to you whether you're willing to give them a shot.

Best wishes,

Jason

Consecrated · February 2010

Jason wrote: »

Welcome to the forum, Consecrated.

Nobody can tell you what path to follow. That's a decision you have to make for yourself.

Buddhism offers a structured approach that is said to lead to the end of suffering and stress, mainly through a combination of self-reflection and empirical observations of human experience. In essence, Buddhism is the study of our perceptions (or impressions) about reality in an effort to remove the suffering that faulty perceptions can create.

There is no empirical proof that Buddhism does what it sets out to do, but there are pragmatic proofs that one can test (e.g., observing the precepts, practicing meditation, developing insight, etc.). It's up to you whether you're willing to give them a shot.

Best wishes,

Jason

Thank you for your reply as well, Jason

RichardH · February 2010

I am perfectly happy to share experience and knowledge Consecrated. I just cannot hoist a Buddhist banner of righteousness. Nor can I or should I seek to convince. The door is open in Buddha Dharma to come and go. Investigate and see if it accords with your reason and experience.

Mountains · February 2010

I agree with the above posts - no one can "prove" anything to you about Buddhism. You can only find it for yourself. If it is right for you, you will know it without any outside influence. I don't know a lot about Buddhism compared to many here, but I do know that nothing I've ever come across in Buddhism is in any way righteous or preachy. It is there for you to discover for yourself, and nobody is going to force anything on you. That's what's so lovely about it to me. Most other religious traditions have, somewhere in them, some kind of 'conversion' ritual or they have a facet to them that tries to go out and obtain new converts. Not so in Buddhism. I can't see anyone being an Evangelical Buddhist

Mtns

Channah108 · February 2010

Buddhism is not about world domination, being ''the right path'' to happiness, heaven, enlightenment etc above and beyond all others...

It is about advancing YOURSELF spiritually - so that you achieve enlightenment and by doing so are a benefit to all other living beings - regardless of what path they are on...

why do you want proof ??? why do you need it ??? why must Buddhism be the only path to salvation etc ?? why must you choose ''the right path'' ??

If the teachings of Buddha help you to advance spiritually, if they help you to live a good life, free from harming others and destructive actions, then it is the right path...

for others that right path lies in hinduism, or Islam, or Judaism or christianity...

find your own center, your own peace and allow others to find theirs... in this way others will benefit - not from being on your version of the right path...

shenpennangwa · February 2010

Consecrated wrote: »

Peace

Prove to me that Buddhism is the path I should follow

I want reasonable signs and proofs that it is the most righteous path on the planet

Thank you

no.

federica · February 2010

Consecrated, Buddhism is perhaps the only religion where followers are encouraged to NOT proselytise. You could go to many other forums discussing many other religions, and ask the same question (substituting that specific religion for 'Buddhism') and I'm sure you would be bombarded with hundreds of responses, all trying to convince you, as you ask.
ask the same question on any Buddhist forum, and you will receive the same responses as on here: In short, "Ehi Passeiko!" - 'Come and see for yourself'.

We can - as has already been stated - answer many questions on Buddhism in order to attempt to clarify certain specific points, but as for trying to convince you that this is the definitive way to go - any influence would be somebody else's conviction, and not your own.
That's the main reason we won't work to respond as you initially requested. Because you must be convinced by your own reasoning. Not that of anybody else.
Anything less would be 'unMindful'l on our part...

we wish you well, and a fruitful and successful solution.
Whatever that might be, wherever it might take you.
With much Metta.

RayfieldNeel · February 2010

federica wrote: »

Consecrated, Buddhism is perhaps the only religion where followers are encouraged to NOT proselytise.

This is one of the things that attracted my attention to Buddhism.
"A path that isn't actively out there trying to convert? These folks are on to something.."

Subjectivity9 · February 2010

Consecrated,

C: I want reasonable signs and proofs that it is the most righteous path on the planet.

S9: That is a very good attitude to start out with. : ^ )

But, let me ask you this.

What could anyone possibly say to you that would prove such a thing to be true? Aren’t you going to have to try Buddhism on, and see if it makes any changes in your life for the better, before you can make such a decision for yourself?

Buddhism is a whole way of life. It isn’t something that can be summed up in a paragraph or two.

Of course if it could be, really, what good would it do you? Many people dedicate their whole lives to understanding Buddhism deeply, and never regretted it. ( I am one of these people).

I think most everyone here would agree with me, that every minute spent trying to understand Buddhism is a minute well spent. It is life changing, and for the good. But don't take my word for it. A true seeker would want to look into it themselves.

So jump in and enjoy it for a while. What have you got to lose?

I believe that specific questions based on what you are learning along the way, will bring you plenty of lengthy answers, much reasonable help, and even more good will.

Warm Regards,
S9

pegembara · February 2010

As they sat there, the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some priests & contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. And then other priests & contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain & in doubt: Which of these venerable priests & contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"

"Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.

Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html

Mani · February 2010

RayfieldNeel wrote: »

This is one of the things that attracted my attention to Buddhism.
"A path that isn't actively out there trying to convert? These folks are on to something.."

Yes. I have said in the past that "I've never had a Buddhist monk come to my door".

Nor had any temples or centers I have visited in the past contacted me to ask why I had not come back for a while. Though monks and teachers are delighted to share the Dharma, it generally must be requested first. Also I think there is a good understanding that one must have the causes and conditions, and the merit for such teachings.

nickjohnston1 · February 2010

your mind will believe whatever it wants to believe, whether presented with overwhelming fact, or utter lack of substantial evidence.
thusly, proving anything to you is impossible, we just point you in a direction and let you draw your own conclusions.

ansanna · February 2010

From the start in historical Buddha's time, the teaching in Buddha Dharma is the gathering of the wise people who want to see the reality as is it.

Floating_Abu · February 2010

Consecrated wrote: »

Prove to me that Buddhism is the path I should follow

You are already on it.

BrotherBob · February 2010

experiencing the suffering you have and the wish to be free of it and seeing others who through joyous effort seem to have less suffering is the attraction of this way - proving it is accomplished in the fabric of your own life.

blueface · February 2010

It's true noone is going to sell/evangelise buddhism for you, you have to practice hard to see the benefits also. However here's a clue for you. You have been 'SEARCHING' and looking for a 'REASON' without which life is worthless, is that right? When you have the mental urge to do something you can follow it or look into that urge itself. If it is a human flaw to SEARCH incessantly or to rationalise things into a system of human REASONS one approach is to question those urges- be happy where you are and see reason itself as just an idea. Hope you have luck friend. BF

texashermit · February 2010

Dear Consecrated,

You pose a difficult yet important problem, and I will try to share with you something about this Dhamma way through a paraphrased story. Modernized from my own perspective.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style>People would go to Buddha and ask whether they would attain union with God (Brahma). Buddha would say that there is no such separation to resolve..no God to unite with. When Sariputta, the son of a Brahmin, came to Buddha for the first time, he asked him, ”Who will come to you? You want us to give up everything, and when we ask what shall we get in return for this, you tell us there is nothing to get! Why would ANYONE follow you then? People only renounce something in their greed for getting something else.”

Buddha said, ”One who renounces to get something in return has not renounced at all. What is the meaning of renunciation? If renunciation is done to get something it is a business transaction, not an act of renunciation. A person renounces his palace so that he may get a palace in heaven – it is a business deal. A person does a virtuous deed to become happy – it is business. A person donates, renders service, becomes religious, only in the hope of having a better next life in some world. It is business – where is the renunciation in it?” Buddha said, "There is liberation only when there is no expectation of getting anything in return.”

Sariputta said, ”Maybe it is so, but where will you find such followers?”

At the beginning of the journey, we are all business-minded people. We are trained that way from childhood...to be a good consumer. Even when people desire to have a relationship with God, it is typically only after tire-kicking different faiths to see which one offers something the others don't. An ignorant person cannot do anything else but view it from this vantage point. Purely understandable. When Jesus remarked that the path to the kingdom of heaven was to enter it as a child, he reflected the Buddha's teachings (if you can pardon the ecumenical language here a bit), insofar that the Buddha talked about the same thing regarding the dhamma and the middle way. It is about letting go, figuring out who you really are (and who you are not!) without ego-driven assessments or enticements we are so used to employing.

There is no prize at the end of the journey. The journey IS the prize. That is an important thing to understand. To figure out if Buddhism is for you, you have to dive in a try it without expectations. There are some basics: The Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Path, learning some basic sitting practices, etc. but that really will not answer your question, because your question has no answer. I promise I am not dodging. :- ) I am sharing something I've learned in the last 20 years of practicing dhamma. The journey is always about who you are, not where you are going. The short answer is that you are interconnected oneness with all things, and that the concept of a separate "you" doesn't exist in absolute terms as the ego would convince us otherwise. By the way...that is also the key to answering Sariputta's question.

I wish you well.

comicallyinsane · February 2010

There is nothing complicated about Buddhism. The only problem is that people want to add extra meaning where there isn't any. It's a whole different way of looking at things. It follows that old saying, "I can show you the door but you have to walk through it".

questionful · February 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN4UHDc4_hQ

PietroPumokin · February 2010

Consecrated wrote: »

Peace

Prove to me that Buddhism is the path I should follow

I want reasonable signs and proofs that it is the most righteous path on the planet

Thank you

comicallyinsane · February 2010

That looks like an alien.

appleorange · February 2010

The focus of Buddhism is to show how our wrongful perceptions allow for unnecessary suffering and grief.

You want proof that Buddhism is the right path for you. That question in itself is the reason why we suffer. There is no answer to that question and for someone such as yourself who is interested in Buddhism I can understand how such a reply could be very frustrating and discouraging.

Texashermit gave you a better reply than anyone else here or myself could. The longer one practices Buddhism the more paradoxical it becomes and you eventually discard it all together.

For someone new to Buddhism, I recommend reading the book I linked below by Thich Nhat Hanh. I'll also post some youtube links to a video which will give you a feel to the nature of Buddhism itself.

http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Buddhas-Teaching-Thich-Nhat/dp/0767903692/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266295506&sr=1-7

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iinZt0mTn_g

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFo4lBFZBfk

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO3jHyLL_7Q

Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeeBXbkXB5o

Part 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDfoRaZLDX0

Part 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCF4Atk0ifs

MatSalted · February 2010

Consecrated wrote: »

Prove to me that Buddhism is the path I should follow

May I suggest, a philosophical method to answer your requirement.

Firstly, that you reflect on and try to prove the following wrong to your own mind:

That all systems are impermanent.
That all systems are interconnected and empty.
That all causes have many effects and causes.
That all causes are effects and all effects are not causes.

There are many ways you can dress the above points, but whatever way, when stripped, I imagine you will not find any way to doubt them, not just for this world but for any possible world.

Those four points make up the foundation and the framework of dharma. The hard part of Buddhist philosophy is trying to connect this foundation to the "important stuff" like morality, mind, peace, truth and happiness.

Have a try...

When you get stuck you can see how the Buddha has worked it all out, seen it, known it and contained it all in The Four Noble Truths.

Try to doubt the Four Noble Truth, their foundation and their conditions on experience, if you cant, you don't need anyone to "prove Buddhism" to you as it becomes seen as self evidence and indubitable.

Mat

Subjectivity9 · February 2010

Consecrated,

I think that the first question we must all ask ourselves, when studying Buddhism, is “What can I personally know.”

Not what have other people, or authorities of one kind or another told me. Not what ideas do I either like, and find comforting, or even agree with, but… “What can I, as an individual...looking directly at my own world and myself...know?

You can study many areas of learning to see how others have handled this very question, and in order to build their own firm foundation of knowing within them selves. But in the end, this question will end up being between you and yourself. : ^ )

Buddha took up this very challenge during his life and has left us hints on exactly how he tackled it. I see Buddhism as a great method, if nothing else.

There are copious writings on what Buddhism teaches. So an itemize list on what you should know of this would certainly be quite impossible. : ^ (

But, do notice this, if you will.

Buddhism at its best is an emptying out of ALL illusions, and not so much a building up of a new school of learning ideas and concepts.

Warm Regards,
S9

AllbuddhaBound · February 2010

You are asking folks to be judgemental and narrow-minded. A contradiction in terms for a Buddhist. To quote LesC who quoted the Dalai Lama in another thread "People choose different paths in their search for spirituality and happiness. Just because they are not on the path you are on, don't assume they have lost their way."

Find your path.

KarmaDondrupTashi · February 2010

What does it matter which is the best path for you? Go outside and feed someone who isn't you.

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