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Philosophy vs religion
Nios
Veteran
I recently watched a video by Bhante Kassapa where he was asked whether Buddhism is a religion or philosophy. He answered that it was neither, because a philosophy is the persuite of knowledge for the sake of knowledge and because religion is obedience to a/many supernatural being/s.
For this reason, he states that buddhism is neither a religion nor philosophy, but it has been "advertised" as a philosophy to the west because we have grown tired of religions. And for this reason, people have become confused by Buddhism as a philosophy, expecially by things such as rebirth and to some extent, karma and nirvana.
So, I have a couple of questions to the members of the board;
1) What is your definition of a philosophy?
2) Do you think Buddhism is a philosophy?
phi·los·o·phy http://www.thefreedictionary.com/philosophy<SCRIPT>play_w2("P0248400")</SCRIPT>
n. pl. phi·los·o·phies 1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
religion [rɪˈlɪdʒən] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/religion
1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief the Christian religion
3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers
4. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) Chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns to enter religion
5. something of overwhelming importance to a person football is his religion
6. Archaic a. the practice of sacred ritual observances
b. sacred rites and ceremonies [via Old French from Latin religiō fear of the supernatural, piety, probably from religāre to tie up, from re- + ligāre to bind]
Nios.
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For this reason, he states that buddhism is neither a religion nor philosophy, but it has been "advertised" as a philosophy to the west because we have grown tired of religions. And for this reason, people have become confused by Buddhism as a philosophy, expecially by things such as rebirth and to some extent, karma and nirvana.
So, I have a couple of questions to the members of the board;
1) What is your definition of a philosophy?
2) Do you think Buddhism is a philosophy?
phi·los·o·phy http://www.thefreedictionary.com/philosophy<SCRIPT>play_w2("P0248400")</SCRIPT>
n. pl. phi·los·o·phies 1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
religion [rɪˈlɪdʒən] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/religion
1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief the Christian religion
3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers
4. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) Chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns to enter religion
5. something of overwhelming importance to a person football is his religion
6. Archaic a. the practice of sacred ritual observances
b. sacred rites and ceremonies [via Old French from Latin religiō fear of the supernatural, piety, probably from religāre to tie up, from re- + ligāre to bind]
Nios.
<SCRIPT>hc_dict()</SCRIPT>
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Comments
But the definition of this particular online dictionary, of Religion, is biased, not to say flawed....
I personally find it offensive that some people would label it a philosophy, by virtue of the fact that there isn't a God to worship. Why should there be a god to worship, in order to be able to call it a Religion?
I think that's almost patronising.
Particularly to all the countless thousands of devoted Monks, nuns, Gurus, lamas and disciples who have devoted themselves to buddhism, to date.
I prefer the definition found here, particularly definitions 1b (2), and 4.
And 2 & 3, here.
Just my 2 cents.
Some people squirm at the word "Religion" and are even drawn to Buddhism because it is considered by many to be a "spiritual path" instead of a religion. But Religion means IMHO total commitment and also giving something up for that committment, whereas "spiritual path" so often refers to something more consumer freindly. IMO.
That's not really how the ancient Greeks and Romans understood philosophy; to them it was a way of life, something you did. Many Stoic and Epicurean practices, for example, were quite similar to many Buddhist practices. I think Buddhism could easily be labelled both, but I don't really think too much about it.
Whether it's labelled Philosophy or Religion doesn't really matter to this delusional disciple. I'm just happy to tread the path pointed to.
We have Faith (as defined by Confidence) that by studying the Four Noble Truths and following the Eightfold path, we can come to understand the origin of suffering, and the cessation of suffering.
So Buddhism is a religion, by that definition.
Really? I do not know of anyone that has faith that doesn't thinkit is also logical and sound; remember, what is logical and sound to some are thought of by others as superstition and blind faith.
I agree with Fed, I have faith that if I practice the Dharma I will end all stress and anxiety in my life.
I think the title of religion is something that Judeo/Christian/Islam people (or "the only true religion" mentality) ascribe to and use it to define other non-true creeds, it is not really a concern to the rest of the world.
Nietzsche is a philosopher, if people began congregating in buildings to discuss his work and a movement soon formed with large numbers of people, they would probably be called Nietzscheans or something.
How is a man who believes in the works of Nietzsche any different from the man who believes the words in the bible?
There is no difference at all.
Buddhism can be compared to various Greek philosophies, in the sense that philosopers at that time were expected to practice what they preach, and philosophy was expected to tell us how to live. As Richard says, Buddhism is not a philosophy in the modern sense, since modern philosophy doesn't try to tell us how to act, with the exception of ethics and specialist philosophies like philosophy of science, which only tries to tell scientists how to act. So any religion may be a philosophy. The ambiguity of the term allows both yes and no answers.
Absolutely. We have faith in Buddha's teachings and so we practice them.. and then our faith in them increases as we experience the truth of the teachings for ourselves. In my view Buddhism is a religion.
.
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"Perfect Tathagata, Beautiful Tathagata, I open my heart to your blessing, I have deep faith in your way"
Faith and Devotion, This was the first step.
Others can do it their way.
Hi
re your point on logic, imho, what is logical and sound is true irrespective of anyones beleifs:) Logic is like maths, only I suppose more fundamental.
re faith
I am starting to change my thoughts on this. I guess it depends where the belief is "grounded". Some beliefs will be grounded in faith, others in reason. In Buddhism I don't think these are incompatible.
We can see the same clear dharmic structure while having incompatible beliefs about certain parts of it.
peace
Mat
There seems a difference to me.
"Faith" can be successfully doubted, eg I can doubt Heaven or rebirth
"Dharma" cannot be successfully doubted. In the same way as I cannot doubt that 2+2=4.
So Dharma seems stronger than faith, even though it can contain items of faith.
Mat
I agree with you about what is actually logical, the point I was trying to make is that people claim their beliefs are logical (provable or at least the most correct of all possibilities even if others clearly see the beliefs are not).
re: faith, reason, and beliefs: in my case, all three of them have to be perfectly reconciled with each other for me to endorse them. If reason/logic shows me that something I believe to be correct is, in fact, incorrect, I adjust accordingly.
is this a birds and the bees lesson?
Yes. Believing one is reasonable isnt the same as being reasonable:) An often missed point amongst religious fanatics (do you get buddhist fanatics?)
Me too:)
Mat
Are you joking? Surely you can see it is a schematic depiction of the holistic increase in happiness due to positive karmic feedback? I thought you were a buddhist???!!:p
Actually its (:eek::p) X (:o:(:mad:) -
And I thought you knew your stuff...Jeeez
So that's what zen is!
Koan :dunce: Head
:cool: