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Don't blame Ego.

RichardHRichardH Veteran
edited February 2010 in Buddhism Basics
The realization of Non Duality, or basic awakeness does not mean being Egoless. Atta is not the psychological ego.


Certainly self-centered Egotism loses its fuel, but the basic ego-structure of the bodymind/world interface remains intact. This structure is a natural part of the bodymind's process and not some kind of aberration. With practice it becomes more integrated and autonomous. I am still me...not you, and we may have different sensibilities and needs. The villainizing of ego can create conflict that is hopeless, as people try to negate the tryer. A healthy ego-structure is part of a mature spiritual practice, it is no trouble. Beware of someone who is "Egoless" because he probably has a "Gurus Ego" that is so cosmically inflated he feels " a loving oneness" with everything conflated with his own agenda. Perhaps a Buddha is truly without this social interface, but why would he need to be?

Comments

  • edited February 2010
    It's a quirky thing, this ego study. A Theravada podcaster that I listen to spoke of "accepting your ego; it's part of you"..in practice, this seems to somehow make me less dependent upon it, or tied to it.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Perhaps a Buddha is truly without this social interface, but why would he need to be?
    One of the great benefits in reading the suttas, especially the Majjhima Nikaya, is we obtain a wonderful insight into the personality of the Buddha and how he interacted socially.

    :)
  • Quiet_witnessQuiet_witness Veteran
    edited February 2010
    I agree Richard, the practice of eliminating the ego entirely is fruitless and a contradictory conumdrum. I believe it is necessary to have a healthy ego which can be a great tool to help you successfully function in society and attain greater insight.
  • edited February 2010
    I agree Richard, the practice of eliminating the ego entirely is fruitless and a contradictory conumdrum. I believe it is necessary to have a healthy ego which can be a great tool to help you successfully function in society and attain greater insight.

    there are actually teachings on this.
    If we deny the functionality of conventional reality we end up with an extreme view that ends up making it difficult for us to practice and function in society.
  • Quiet_witnessQuiet_witness Veteran
    edited February 2010
    there are actually teachings on this.
    If we deny the functionality of conventional reality we end up with an extreme view that ends up making it difficult for us to practice and function in society.

    I remember someone linked a good essay on this idea in a thread sometime in Dec. I'll look for it.
  • edited February 2010
    Love is the only path and the path never ends.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited February 2010
    I realize the OP is not news. Its just that recently I've encountered a few new Buddhists (offline) who are under the impression that there is this enemy called ego that must be conquered in order to be "spiritual" people who are Egoless.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2010
    I remember someone linked a good essay on this idea in a thread sometime in Dec. I'll look for it.

    I think it might be this one... previously Published in Tricycle online magazine as "Hang onto your Ego"....

    http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/CrossIndexed/Uncollected/Uncollected.html
  • Quiet_witnessQuiet_witness Veteran
    edited February 2010
    Thanks Fed that is the article I was referrring to. I :bowdown: to your supreme link finding abillities.
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited February 2010

    The realization of Non Duality does not mean being Egoless

    it is just see the 'reality' and see how absurd 'trying to cling to nothing'

    but the habitual tendency is to cling to nothing thinking nothing is something


    it is important to be practice mindfulness with the realization of Non Duality experience to become egoless
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2010
    Thanks Fed that is the article I was referrring to. I :bowdown: to your supreme link finding abillities.

    Aw shucks....it weren't nuthin'.....You should see me skippin' on water......!

    (Is that my Ego, talking....?:D)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited February 2010
    When I say ego I am not thinking of Freud's idea. I am thinking of pride. So in that sense pride (and defensiveness) IS an obstacle to buddhist practice. But no worse an obstacle than anger greed attachment ignorance or jealousy.
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited February 2010
    I agree with you all and I have also come across those (not always Buddhist) who think they must somehow rid themselves of their ego in order to progress in their spiritual practice. I think some of this might be coming from Tolle. I've only read a bit of his stuff but from what I remember he kept referring to the ego as 'our enemy' and so forth.

    Even a first year psychology student could tell them that even if it were possible to get rid of the ego doing so would be catastrophic psychologically. I imagine it would be some kind of psychotic break.

    Simplistically put, I think part of the initial work we do on ourselves when we're following a spiritual path is psychological; achieving a healthy, integrated, and balanced ego.
    And we continue on from there.
    Or we would if the process was always sequential. But you know what I mean....
  • edited February 2010
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    When I say ego I am not thinking of Freud's idea. I am thinking of pride. So in that sense pride IS an obstacle to buddhist practice. But no worse an obstacle than anger greed attachment ignorance or jealousy.

    Atta = ego-centric consciousness = selfishness = pride, greed, hatred, etc... (Often atta is translated as ego, and sometimes as 'soul'). Having said that, I cannot imagine how I as a householder, engaged as I am in commercial and other activities, can free myself of ego altogether. ;)

    Just a question, whilst we are on this subject:

    Anatta doctrine states that there is no permanent unchanging self to be found in the five aggregates.

    So, is it wrong to "think" that there is a impermanent changing self to be found in the five aggregates, which themselves are all impermanent and continuously changing? Like saying atta = "changing empirical self."
    :)
  • edited February 2010
    Doesn't this depend a lot on your definition of ego? I mean isn't the idea that if nobody had the idea of 'me' or 'mine', then bad emotions wouldn't arise? It's true that a lot of people get this idea that they don't have an ego, when actually they just have a very strange one, but generally I try to avoid focusing on myself in every day life. It helps you keep calm.
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