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Buddhism and Music
thegoldeneternity
Veteran
Hi everyone. I'm new here.
I have noticed some people mentioning music as an attachment to be abandoned in the pursuit of enlightenment. In my experience, music can provide both inspiration to seek enlightenment and is a source of joy when the mind is clear. I also find that when I am in a mental/spiritual slump, music becomes less enjoyable.
Of course, I don't mean all music. Most popular music I think is total crap. The good music I am referring to has a certain authenticity about it. There is sincerity in both the words (if there are any) and the performance of the music. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I believe some music is compatible with (my limited knowledge of) Buddhist teachings and practices. There is very much an element of living-in-the-moment when it comes to music. There is a connection between performers and listeners that can facilitate a loving kindness between all involved.
I have dabbled in meditation a few times, but never kept up the practice for more than a few weeks (I know that I need to start meditating again and stay with it). On a few occasions, my meditation coincided with traveling around solo and attending concerts, meeting people, reading (especially Jack Kerouac), and these are some of the most memorable happy experiences of my life. I felt that I was making progress towards enlightenment, only to fall back on old bad habits (drinking, not meditating, desiring things/sex/money, etc.) once my traveling ceased.
I would be interested to hear what people have to say about the relationship between Buddhism and music. Is it possible that a musical life is compatible with a search for enlightenment?
I have noticed some people mentioning music as an attachment to be abandoned in the pursuit of enlightenment. In my experience, music can provide both inspiration to seek enlightenment and is a source of joy when the mind is clear. I also find that when I am in a mental/spiritual slump, music becomes less enjoyable.
Of course, I don't mean all music. Most popular music I think is total crap. The good music I am referring to has a certain authenticity about it. There is sincerity in both the words (if there are any) and the performance of the music. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I believe some music is compatible with (my limited knowledge of) Buddhist teachings and practices. There is very much an element of living-in-the-moment when it comes to music. There is a connection between performers and listeners that can facilitate a loving kindness between all involved.
I have dabbled in meditation a few times, but never kept up the practice for more than a few weeks (I know that I need to start meditating again and stay with it). On a few occasions, my meditation coincided with traveling around solo and attending concerts, meeting people, reading (especially Jack Kerouac), and these are some of the most memorable happy experiences of my life. I felt that I was making progress towards enlightenment, only to fall back on old bad habits (drinking, not meditating, desiring things/sex/money, etc.) once my traveling ceased.
I would be interested to hear what people have to say about the relationship between Buddhism and music. Is it possible that a musical life is compatible with a search for enlightenment?
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Comments
One can absolutely get attached to music, and it can cause suffering, but it is like any of life's other pleasures: Enjoy them, and explore them if they're your passion, but do not let them cause you unhappiness.
As something that's slightly abstract (music is rarely considered on the basis of being a physical object, as was the case not too long ago), it's hard to imagine being physically attached to it. It basically comes down to, methinks:
If you begin to suffer because you don't have access to your music, there is likely an issue.
If you use music for enjoyment but could handle to let go of it should need arise, there's probably not an issue.
I've even read about Buddhist monasteries performing musically, so at least among some groups it's obviously cherished.
But music is useful for things other than indulgence. It can help one learn about communication, the mind, emotions. Playing music causes others pleasure, which is good though I don't completely understand why. I mean, giving others crack would also cause them pleasure, but that would be bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzv0enzJBow
I've never interpreted Buddhism as meaning "the cessation of all things pleasurable". Honestly, I have little interest in that. At least as I am right now.
Welcome to the forum, by the way! We can be new together!
I applaud you for being able to discern anything in that kind of music! Honestly, to my ear it sounds like noise. But if it touches you in that way, more power to you! Mozart or Schubert are more my style
Mtns
This was my point.
Apologies, I must have missed something. I inferred from your previous post that you intentionally avoid listening to music that could be enjoyable.
I was raised in the household of a professional musician, and played violin and trumpet in my youth and young adulthood. I'm a long way from giving up my Gabrieli, Mozart, Wagner, Copland, Stan Kenton, Wynton Marsalis, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Rush, and Iron Maiden.
If it weren't for punk music, I don't know if I would have ever learned to think for myself!
Music used to be very important to me; listening to it and writing and playing it myself. But for the last 5 years or so I haven't been listening to music much at all. I've listened to some classical and opera but other than that it's just something I'm not attracted to anymore. For me it's exactly the way Anupassi described it: I'm just not interested in things that ignite strong emotion or passion in me anymore. I've lost the taste for it.
I'm feel the same way.
from the chinese. buddhism is an ancient religion and culture that we should consider. modern and ancient culture are very much different and buddhism has been filled with many wise men as well as fools. even wise men that were fools, and wise men that did not have penises (women). in the case of music, media allows for the rapid transmission of music hitherto unknown. music is certainly an accessory to enlightenment, here talking about music outside of buddhist practice, for example chanting sutras, at the same time a hindrance as well. i think the music you choose and the time you choose to listen to it is subject to the tao just as anything else. one should listen to music according to the mood and weather of the heart, not the ears, because the ears are a sense gate that succumb to defilement.
and the most important role of music, i believe, is to inspire bodhicitta and love, which is a very common musical theme, and sometimes i feel if you listen closely enough, is hidden in every song. even sad songs, for example, always provide the opportunity to feel empathy and generate solidarity. music is indispensable to buddhadharma and should be practiced as meditation daily.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXtzBuLhy7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DxTtJ0jM5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig0FZVnwec4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK6t408kliQ
listening to music might not have a significant negative effect in our daily lives, but if someone is seriously seeking enlightenment, the pleasure of music must be given up.
I like this. I have always felt a connection to sad songs. There is a co-misery in a sad song that elicits a feeling of empathy and compassion towards others, both near and far. Feelings of empathy and compassion are "emotional and passionate," should they therefore be avoided? My instinct says no.
Also, thanks for the welcome. I look forward to using this forum and its contributors as a daily dose of wisdom. Maybe I can share some as well. Here's hoping. :^)
given up do you mean or not given in to? is tathagata in this song or is tathagata not?
I really liked the music. Especially The Nurses and Bowerbirds. Hadn't heard of either of them before. My kind of music.
Do you know Apollo Sunshine? Check this out if you're keen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dYygytO4TU
Hey, Brigid. Yes, I can relate to this also. For a long time, music was my passion and my creative outlet. At one time I thought that it would be my life's direction. I used to listen, play, and create too. For me, Dharma is my passion now. Not to say I don't (or wouldn't) enjoy all the music I used to, but things have changed, and sort of like you said, the passion for it may only result in sidetracking me from my true goals and ambitions.
On a side note, I find that sometimes if one is really into a song or certain music, it can get stuck in the head, and become a bit of a hindrance to concentration.
So now mantras are the "songs" that I don't mind getting stuck in my head.
Here is a question: Is it possible for something to facilitate making steps towards achieving enlightenment even though it too must ultimately be abandoned for true enlightenment?
No, I don't think so. I think that these aspects of creativity come from our "Buddha-nature" actually. There are many achieved teachers who have very creative sides to them. For example, the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje has written some poetry, has composed some musical pieces, etc. I think that one is usually in a certain state of mind when in that creative process. Sort of like when musicians say they are "in the zone". Very aware, where things just flow in that sense.
I answered the way I did because if I continued to play music, I would probably spend most of my time doing that, and very little time studying and practicing. When thinking about when I used to do that, it didn't really bring me any closer to the aspirations and goals I now have.
Absolutely. Even the Dhamma itself.
I imagine that's precisely correct - use the raft and then let it go (give it up!!) YES!!
[Beavis]Heh heh heh, heh heh heh, enlightenment sucks...heh heh heh[/Beavis]
Now, if his mental associations and cultural conditioning do not grant him this freedom while listening to music, he is not yet free deeply within himself. In this way, the listener has mentally identified with something as being separate from himself. Yet again, this is just the ego's great delusion.
The monk should be still and at one with all that exists in the present, be it pleasure, pain, or distraction. He is simply present. He is aware and completely unattached.
Speaking of conditioning, western thought has a notoriously selfish yet emotionally rewarding way of viewing art, music, and dance. It is easy to feel compelled to lace artistic creation with our own emotion, judgment, and personal experience. Even so, this is not necessarily the artist's intentions. If so, the artist can not yet be free within himself (oh, the romantics!).
In fact, a worthy artist would want his audience to accept his art and creativity for what it is, irregardless of personal taste or opinion. This is even the case if the selfish artist is luring us for controversy or fame. The listener remains peaceful and compassionate. His deep compassion helps him go beyond his own notion of taste.
A monk's mind is not a tyrannical state filled with countless casual labels and judgments. Nor is music just another pawn of the ego.
If a monk has nurtured a sense of separateness from listening to music, it is advised to meditate while listening to music. As he listens, he repeats within himself:
"listening to music...listening to music..."
If he is led to distraction as caused by the music, he is asked to repeat:
"let the music be...let it be...let it be."
He repeats "let it be..." until he has become completely still, at one with the music, the breath, and all else that surrounds him.
Enlightenment does not mean that attachments cease to exist, but rather that we change our relationship to our attachments ... let me relate a story about the Dalai Lama ...
He was taken on a tour of a Catholic monastery which made cheeses and fruitcakes for sale. They gave him a piece of cheese to sample. What he really wanted was a taste of the fruitcake. His reaction? When he told the story months later, he broke out in rolling laughter that he had wanted the fruitcake.
If HE still has his attachments (remember, he was raised as a monk since what ... age 4?), how can WE expect to not be attached? But he is a model for us on how we will someday react to our attachments and disappointments.
So listen to your music, watch your attachment to it, accept that you are attached. Realize that your relationship to your attachment is the barrier to enlightenment, and that someday it won't be the barrier. But remind yourself that there is nothing about music itself that helps your practice ... at least, no more than cheese and fruitcake!
I can offer only my own experience as a semi-pro trumpet player for a number of years:
It takes on a completely different meaning when you're standing out in front of an audience, creating a certain tone and technique on a trumpet, while accompanied by a talented organist. Something happens in your mind when it's right, a total focus and rapture, and a near absence of thought at times. I'm thoroughly unqualified to call it jhana...but it sure matches the descriptions.
Ive learned to let go of a fair amount of attachment to music. Obsession with it helped kill my marriage. Now It's just for fun, and most days I can take it or leave it.
I definitely can see the dark side of it, though. For years I've been really into bands with overly intense, and often times downright depressing themes. Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Alice in Chains. When you listen to The Wall, or Animals over and over again, and start identifying with it, internalizing it and actually thinking there is some virtue in the whole tortured artist thing, it can really drag your whole consciousness into an abyss. Amazing how much pleasure one can take in their own pain.
These days, I'd much prefer to listen to a talk by Ajahm Brahm than Dark Side Of The Moon.
Most of the comments here have been about listening to music, about letting go of attachments. But to me if done with the right perspective and in proportion, playing or enjoying music is not unlike any other need that we have, and any other healthy pleasure that we can experience.
If I were to stop playing music it would be similar to stopping eating or at least enjoying it. So to reach enlightenment are we to cease this too?
I do "work" at not overdoing things like eating, and should music become a matter of concern, and excess than I can see it being a problem, and an obstacle in my journey. But at least up to now, it is just a another facet of my Day to day life.