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I have seen it ...

DeshyDeshy Veteran
edited March 2010 in Buddhism Basics
I have seen it in the suttas... The Mara. What on earth is that? :confused:

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2010
    Basically, it'as all the negative crappy side of things.

    The Buddha was tempted by Mara during his meditation under the Bodhi tree...
    Mara tempted him even with his two beautiful, nubile, sensuous and stunningly beautiful daughters....but they turned into scaly disgusting deplorable filthy stinking hags..... He fired a thousand arrows to pierce his body...But the Buddha turned them all into gently falling flower petals....
    The Buddha, beset by agonising mental machinations, overcame them.....

    Suttas or sutras?
    I think it would be the latter.....

    This is why when Mahayana speaks of everybody possessing 'Buddha Nature', I point out that everybody is equally 'gifted' with Mara-Nature, too....
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited March 2010
    federica wrote: »
    Suttas or sutras?
    I think it would be the latter.....
    Hmm? What do you mean? Mara appears in the Pali suttas as well. And in the Dhammapada.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2010
    Yes of course.
    Forgive me, I am a little distracted.
    I was stupidly, in my mind (of all places, huh? :rolleyes: ;)) momentarily confusing Mara with Yama....although my elaboration I think was correct....

    My father is dying, you see. Yama is a constant companion, right now.

    My bad.
    Don't worry, I'm cool with stuff....
    :)
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited March 2010
    federica wrote: »
    Yes of course.
    Forgive me, I am a little distracted.
    I was stupidly, in my mind (of all places, huh? :rolleyes: ;)) momentarily confusing Mara with Yama....although my elaboration I think was correct....

    My father is dying, you see. Yama is a constant companion, right now.

    My bad.
    Don't worry, I'm cool with stuff....
    :)
    It's all good. I'm sorry to hear about your father. Much metta to you through this difficult time.
  • questionfulquestionful
    edited March 2010
    I thought Mara was a common Hindu nickname for the devil. The devil is a metaphor for temptation.

    What's really funny is one of the most beautiful girls I know, truly breathtaking, is named Mara!
    :p:p:p:p

    http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/buddha.and.mara.jpg

    http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/II/What_is_Mara.htm
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited March 2010
    federica wrote: »
    My father is dying, you see. Yama is a constant companion, right now.

    :)

    Many good wishes and kind thoughts for your father and for youself at this time, Federica.

    With metta,

    Dazzle _/\_


    .
  • mrdude1228mrdude1228
    edited March 2010
    questionful wrote: »
    I thought Mara was a common Hindu nickname for the devil. The devil is a metaphor for temptation.

    What's really funny is one of the most beautiful girls I know, truly breathtaking, is named Mara!
    :p:p:p:p

    http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/buddha.and.mara.jpg

    http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/II/What_is_Mara.htm

    Mara can be described as the root of the tinge of suffering I felt upon clicking those links instinctively, and finding they were not pictures of aforementioned pretty lady :lol:

    (no worries, just a habit from an old forum -- it'd be slightly inappropriate to have actually linked to a picture of said lady xP)
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    So what is Mara? Why are the suttas so elaborate in presenting it as if there is a person called Mara if it is just mental suffering and the like
  • ValtielValtiel Veteran
    edited March 2010
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)?wasRedirected=true

    Wikipedia is occassionally useful. Occassionaly. :P
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Mara is more than internal defilements. Mara is also external.

    After his enlightenment, the Buddha was visited by Mara often, despite the Buddha being completely free from defilement.

    Mara is a diety with supernormal powers, just like the Buddha had supernormal powers or just like there are Christians who have supernormal powers.

    So the external Mara, for example, like many Christians, disagreed with the Buddha and liked to try to torment him.


    :)
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited March 2010
    Dhamma Dhatu wrote: »
    Mara is also external.


    :)


    So where does Mara live, DD ? Could one contact him and ask him round for a nice cuppa tea and a fruity bun, for example ? :buck:





    .
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited March 2010
    ba21.jpg
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    So where does Mara live, DD ? Could one contact him and ask him round for a nice cuppa tea and a fruity bun, for example ? :buck:

    .

    I would think that Mara is personified in every single jerk that pizzes us off, and who rubs us up the wrong way, and who drives us nuts and who gets on our nerves, and who generally unfailingly and unwittingly makes life difficult for us.
    Heck, I've been Mara myself once or twice. Probably more.

    Sure of it.....

    (Many thanks, by the way, to all kind wishes regarding my father. You're most kind, and I greatly appreciate your generous comments. As I'm sure does my mother. I will pass them on to her. Don't want to divert the thread, so may revive one I created some time ago, regarding my father......)
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited March 2010
    federica wrote: »

    This is why when Mahayana speaks of everybody possessing 'Buddha Nature', I point out that everybody is equally 'gifted' with Mara-Nature, too....
    yes, though buddha nature is the natural purified and tranquil pond while mara is the devil that hops in that pond to take a bath and gets his filth everywhere.... you might say that the buddha-pond naturally attracts the mara nature though in which case you'd be entirely right, but never should we forget that the intrinsic nature is buddha, and mara is only an extra addition
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Dhamma Dhatu wrote: »
    Mara is more than internal defilements. Mara is also external.

    After his enlightenment, the Buddha was visited by Mara often, despite the Buddha being completely free from defilement.

    Mara is a diety with supernormal powers, just like the Buddha had supernormal powers or just like there are Christians who have supernormal powers.

    So the external Mara, for example, like many Christians, disagreed with the Buddha and liked to try to torment him.


    :)

    Once again DD, thanks for clarifying this. I feel that Mara is more than just internal defilements because Mara seems to have visited the Buddha even after his enlightenment.

    Mara seems to be a person who lived in the Buddha's days probably. We have such dudes in this day and age too. Just like some Brahmins have had he also seems to have had some psychic powers and used that to hazel the Buddha on numerous occasions.

    What I don’t understand is, there are texts that say that Mara asked the Buddha to pass away and the Buddha had actually accepted that and requested some time from Mara. Why on earth would the Buddha do that? Was it because he already made a promise to Mara before his enlightenment?
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    So where does Mara live, DD ? Could one contact him and ask him round for a nice cuppa tea and a fruity bun, for example ? :buck:

    Why not? :)

    10r45sg.jpg
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    I just talked to a friend o mine and he says that Mara is not a person but like an "assigned position". Depending on a being's kamma they will get born as Mara but Mara is not one person. This assigned position is like "Maha Brahma" or "Shakra" the Gods.

    Further Mara's ultimate duty is to make the world go on as it is now. Mara is against beings from seeing the truth and getting enlightened; probably the reaosn why he was against the Buddha :D:D

    So what do you think DD?
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    So what do you think DD?
    For me, I can only guess.

    In Buddhism, (don't tell anyone) Mara & God are the same for God keeps humans beings within self-view.

    For me, Mara has always been a deity that disapproves of the dhamma of anatta.

    I personally know enough 'gifted' Christians. They devote their lives to teaching their doctrine.

    :)
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Dhamma Dhatu wrote: »
    For me, I can only guess.

    In Buddhism, (don't tell anyone) Mara & God are the same for God keeps humans beings within self-view.

    For me, Mara has always been a deity that disapproves of the dhamma of anatta.

    I personally know enough 'gifted' Christians. They devote their lives to teaching their doctrine.

    :)

    OKey so why did the BUddha accepted his invitation to pass away?
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited March 2010
    Dhamma Dhatu wrote: »

    10r45sg.jpg


    Interesting looking book you're studying at the moment, DD.

    Bless......the little stone buddha looks a bit like you too! :)



    .
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited March 2010
    .

    I see Mara as being the personification of ones own delusions and emotional defilements. I like this sutta ...
    Setting at Savatthi. Then, in the morning, the bhikkhuni Vajira dressed and, taking bowl and robe, entered Savatthi for alms. When she had walked for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Blind Men's Grove for the day's abiding. Having plunged into the Blind Men's Grove, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.

    Then Mara the Evil One, desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in the bhikkhuni Vajira, desiring to make her fall away from concentration, approached her and addressed her in verse:

    By whom has this being been created? Where is the maker of the being? Where has the being arisen? Where does the being cease?

    Then it occurred to the bhikkhuni Vajira: "Now who is this that recited the verse — a human being or a non-human being?" Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited the verse desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in me, desiring to make me fall away from concentration."

    Then the bhikkhuni Vajira, having understood, "This is Mara the Evil One," replied to him in verses:

    Why now do you assume 'a being'? Mara, have you grasped a view? This is a heap of sheer constructions: Here no being is found. Just as, with an assemblage of parts, The word 'chariot' is used, So, when the aggregates are present, There's the convention 'a being.' It's only suffering that comes to be, Suffering that stands and falls away. Nothing but suffering comes to be, Nothing but suffering ceases.

    Then Mara the Evil One, realizing, "The bhikkhuni Vajira knows me," sad and disappointed, disappeared right there.

    SN 5.10 Vajira Sutta
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.010.bodh.html



    .
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Did anyone happen to see Little Buddha? There's a scene where the Buddha, after his enlightenment, sees his reflection in some water and he reaches out to it. The reflection grabs his hand and is pulled out of the water as an exact reflection of himself. The Buddha then addresses this reflection and says that he (Mara, the reflection) no longer has any power over him. The reflection then changes to Mara and Mara dissolves. That's what Mara is to me, just the personification of our ego, the one that tempts us with desire. Not something separate from ourselves.

    Palzang
  • NiosNios Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Yes Palzang, I've seen it. I thought it was an ok film, once I got over Keanu Reeves with an Indian accent! :p
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Actually I thought Keanu did an amazing job. Did you know that he lost over 40 pounds for the scene where he's been an ascetic for a long time and is sitting on the bank of the river, where he hears the person in the passing boat talk about the string on his sitar or whatever it was? He really put himself into this role, and the movie as a whole is, imho, the best film made about Buddhism I've ever seen, directed by one of the great directors in the history of cinema. But that's just my opinion. Keanu is much more than the valley boy he plays in a lot of films.

    Palzang
  • NiosNios Veteran
    edited March 2010
    You see, I grew up with Bill & Ted. No matter what film Keanu is in I still think he's gonna end each centance with "duuude" :lol:
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    Interesting looking book you're studying at the moment, DD.

    Bless......looks a little bit like you too! :)
    .

    He looks like a book? :confused::confused:
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited March 2010
    No of course not, Deshy dear. The stone Buddha in the picture on the book. I've made it clearer now.






    .
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Dazzle wrote: »
    No of course not, Deshy dear. The stone Buddha in the picture on the book. I've made it clearer now.


    .

    He he.. I was just kidding. :lol:
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    edited March 2010
    federica wrote: »

    My father is dying, you see. Yama is a constant companion, right now.

    :)

    federica,
    when ever you sit with him talk about the good things he has done in his life

    no matter whether you think he listen to it or not, just keep on reminding the good deed he has done in his life

    that will help him to have a happy thought at his last moment in this life

    then his first moment also in next life will also be a happy one

    his bavanga citta always be a happy one through out his next life
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2010
    He's in Italy, I'm in the UK.... But I talk to him on the 'phone.

    He was recently diagnosed as having a severe case of shingles of the neck and head. 'Shingles' sounds such a light-hearted, trivial name for something that is in fact positively horrific....the pain is both excruciating and debilitating and it inhibits his neck movement, and feels like a constant mild migraine. It's also blurring his eyesight and is a major contributory factor to his confusion....
    But I spoke to him this evening, and he's a lot more lucid.
    it seems that now the condition is diagnosed, he's more able to combat it and withstand the pressure.
    I never cease to be amazed by his tenacious spirit and sheer strength of will....
    And my Mother laughed on the 'phone this evening. Often, she is so tired and tearful.....

    I apologise for de-railing the thread.
    keep him - and her - in your thoughts.
  • ansannaansanna Veteran
    edited March 2010
    mara in sanskrit also means killing, death , pestilence or obstacles, in east asia buddhism is translated as ' robber of life ' In Buddhism it refes to the functions tha blocks or hinder people's effort to complete their Buddhist practice
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Deshy wrote: »
    OKey so why did the BUddha accepted his invitation to pass away?
    The Buddha away from his own will. The Buddha had finished his work and his body was old.

    :smilec:
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