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Bodhisattvas and helping all beings
I have a question about Bodhisattvas, I know that they're beings who've reached Nirvana, or got one foot in the door, but, return to help all beings escape suffering, but, I've seen it said that Bodhisattvas dedicate themselves to save all beings in every realm and dimension of existence, not just humans, and that they are countless beings, which I think is really great, and I would definitely admire them, but, does that mean Bodhisattvas never get to become Buddhas or enter Nirvana completely, if there are countless realms and beings to be saved, or can they choose to enter it if they wish whenever?.
Again, thanks for any help.
David.
Again, thanks for any help.
David.
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Comments
This may take countless eons or it simply may never happen.
Buddhist vows, especially in the mahayana, are very important. It is considered very bad to turn your back on them.
My personal viewpoint is that the Bodhisattvas are an aspect to inspire to. Anyone who puts others welfare before their own are doing Bodhisattva work, like a fireman for example. You don't have to be a Bodhisattva to do the work of a Bodhisattva.
Just my opinion.
Nios.
Nios.
Actually from the understanding from Mahayana persepctive & in the realm of absolute truth
when one's mind has attained the clear stage to perceive all pheonomena in their true aspect , and arose the bodhi-citta heart to save all living beings ( like the enlightened heart of the Buddha )
At that mind moment, all the living beings are already saved and the Bodhisattva vow has fulfilled
as in the plane of nirvana , there is no duality and there is no time-space.
the moment is equal to eternally ( no begining and no ending )
That's why the historical Buddha has attained his full enlightenment , and he also has already fulfilled his original bodhisattva vow to save all living beings
it is a profound concept to grasp ..
*snip*
Meanwhile, in the everyday life of people living in the everyday world, 'saving' all beings is just an interesting aspiration..... which also possibly can give people the idea that they're on some kind of special mission.
How can we 'save' all beings?.....and do they even want to be 'saved' ?
I'd also be really grateful if someone could point me to a sutta in the Pali canon where it says Buddha made an original vow to 'save all living beings' please. .....and if he did, it hasn't actually happened yet, has it.
Kind regards to all,
Dazzle
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As for your other questions we save them by teaching them the dharma. They want to be saved on some level in the sense that they wish for happiness. The Pali Canon does not contain (obvious explicit similar to Mahayana) teachings on the Buddha nature but the Mahayana Sutras explain how because of the properties of the Buddha nature all beings can become buddhas.
Like a mustard seed has oil in it. The dharma is the method to get the oil out of the mustard seed. The fact that there is already oil in the mustard seed is analogous to the Buddha nature.
So as the phrase is saving all sentient beings, how do we teach the Dharma to a slug in the garden, or an ant on the patio ? :buck:
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Palzang
I understand that using the concept of "beings" implies seperation. And seperation is just a concept. How then, is the idea of saving others any more of a concept?
Of course I appreciate the act and thought of saving others from suffering, and that as such it helps your own conventional worldly expereince. But at the end of the day, suffering is just as ok as peace, otherwise seperation of the two exists. Saving implies moving someone or something from something bad to something good.
Is the saving moving "someone" from whats is "bad" or "good" to something that is not either?
Does the bodhisattva act from the expereince he/she thinks the one needs saving is expereincing?
Lots of questions, not challenges. I know bugger all.
Well I never :eek:
Opposites of extremes and the path between them, I am familiar with. But "free from nirvana"! never came across that before! Unless I'm misunderstanding it....
Nios.
It is exceedingly difficult for a slug to attain rebirth as a human. I think the likelyhood is expressed as the likelyhood if you were to hang a loop of roop into the ocean that spontaneously a turtle would pop up and insert its head into the loop.
"Free from Nirvana as a concept" makes sense to me. And Nirvana
*as speach limits it to* is a concept. The thing thats called Nirvana is not Nirvana. Nirvana is a word/idea.
i mentioned recently on another thread, when my sister was a young child, she would close her eyes and sing to me: "You can't see me".
my opinion is the above quite similar
when we can see all things are emptiness, all of the suffering in the whole world ends (but only in our mind)
for example, when we see children starving in Africa or see people being murdered & butchered, it is merely pieces of five aggregates, all absolutely void of self, just elements, totally impersonal
in this mode of perception, there is no suffering anywhere
to me, this is the ultimate non-duality, the ultimate voyeuristic Hinayana practise & the ultimate delusion
of this ultimate delusion of non-duality, known as 'white darkness', the original Bodhisatva said: For this reason, the Mahayana Bodhisatva has two wings: (1) wisdom [of emptiness] and (2) compassion.
Compassion is empathy. Empathy is putting oneself in the place of another.
Although the world may be outwardly empty, inwardly, not all beings have a heart empty of suffering.
So what does saving all sentient beings mean to you then ? "Sentient beings" includes slugs. So you have to wait to save a slug until it eventually becomes a human do you ? If its a human when you "save" it in some other lifetime, assuming it gets one, then its no longer just a "sentient being" its human when you "save" it. "All sentient beings" means all living things, not just humans.
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Then I allow it to recover & rest on a sutta book.
When it has recovered, I read some suttas to it.
:smilec:
I hope you remember to bless it as well !
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A bodhisattva does not need to delay enlightenment, but once enlightened does not pass into the peace of a one sided nirvana, but instead continues to work for the benefit of all beings.
A bodhisattva benefits all beings, though obviously can only teach the dharma to beings in the human realm and higher. Even though a bodhisattva cannot teach the dharma to animals, their activity still benefits animals. This can be seen in the story in the Pali suttas of the frog who listened to the Buddha's sermon, was crushed, and was reborn as a deva.
It's not true that one liberates beings merely by seeing them as empty. Instead, even though they are seen as empty a bodhisattva continues to work to remove their non-existent sufferings.
Such as slimy skin and a troublesome urge to eat compost?
Huh? I've never heard of that before, sounds like a disgusting torture.
Actually I don't believe that a slug can be reborn as a human and this whole concept of waiting till the slug becomes human and being still around to help by 'reincarnating' etc, just implies an eternal 'self '.
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Rather than speculating about helping slugs in their future lives, its better to wish for happiness for all beings and then practice some meditation and focus on the here and now, Jeffrey.
Be well and happy
Dazzle
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If we think a slug is less fortunate than us, to me, that is a bizzare projection.
It is also in the Pali Canon
"Sabbe dhamma anatta — All phenomena are not-self," tells us not to latch onto any of the phenomena of nature, whether conditioned or unconditioned. From that point on I was able to understand things and let go of attachments step by step.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/kee/inward.html#anatta
Hi DD, in Mahayana Buddha Dharma, we said by observing the person behavour and wisdom we can know what level of attainment in his spirtual cutlivation.
So if the so call 'realised ' practitioner still indifferent with the sufferinig beings around him/her and do not express any apiration/effort to relief the suffering from their cause, and still habour the illusion to escape from the 'dirty' samsara - we know that that is a shallow attainment
which is certainly not comparable to the noble behaviour and wisdom of the historical full enlightened Buddha
Buddha dharma is practice , and need to manifested in action in this world , manifested as the actual bodies of the Buddhas to turn the Dharma wheel
there are not mere words
As it is completely evident whom the dissenters are, I would strongly advise the following:
If you have nothing constructive and educational to add to this thread whereupon you would discuss the merits of adherence to this concept, then kindly refrain from commenting, unless you can add supportive comments from a Theravada viewpoint.
If a question is posed seeking the difference between tradition/School points of view, that's one thing.
(But still no cause to ridicule and put down the other differing opinions).
But a thread begun with the aim of discussing a specific Tradition's adherence, is quite another.
I'm getting very tired of having to watch Mahayana-focussed threads for any ridicule and contradiction, dissent and argument.
It's becoming almost anti-semitic in tone.
This is a Buddhist forum.
This isn't a Theravada Buddhist forum, nor is it a Zen Buddhist forum, or even a Pure-Land Buddhist forum.
All Traditions are welcome, all traditions should be welcome, and all traditions have equal worth, value, voice and right to propound their practice.
If you don't like it, butt out, and get over it.
There are other, tradition-focussed forums for you, to sit amongst those who might be as single-mindedly focussed, so feel free to go and add your voice to those.
But there's no place for it here.
If you don't happen to agree with something expounded from another Tradition's viewpoint, then that's your prerogative. But I am not going to tolerate inclusion of comments from those simply wishing to stir up argument, between traditions, goading expansion, justification and simply putting a concept down because they don't happen to agree with it.
If a Thread is multi-traditional in origin, then by all means feel free to put your tradition's viewpoint. Without slamming or belittling some other tradition's viewpoint.
But if a thread is tradition-specific, (as this one clearly is) then I would advise restraint, silence and a bit of respect.
This is not up for discussion.
You know who you are.
You really should know better.
Very clear and readable. Very interesting comments about the "connectness" of all traditions in Buddhism. Written by one who has been called a Living Bodhisattva.
But rather we should acknowledge the complexity of the issue, but still implement our actions based on the firm noble principle
"I can not pretend to practice bodhicitta, but deep inside me I realize how valuable and beneficial it is. That is all." - HHDL, "A Flash of Lightning in the Dark of Night", page 97
Intention is everything.
Thanks for that recommendation, I may check that out
David.