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Never believed...
I personally had a hard time believing in most of the ideas that were put forth regarding religeon and mostly saw it as a tool for controlling the masses. Science and compassion seem to be the way to true enlightenment. What drove you away from the established dieties of the world to us?
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Quoted from the "Do You Believe in a God and Why?" thread @ short-media.com forums.
I was just learning today in my "Lotus and the Cross" class how creepily parallel Buddhism developed to Christianity and how they happened in a very close time frame (they lived within 500 years of each other).
Mahayana Buddhism appeared about the same time that Jesus was alive. Theravada Buddhism recorded its canon for the first time around that period also. Weird, no?
To trace the roots of any monotheistic system back to it's begining is to start at the same point. Funny that now, the fate of the world rests on the rickety bridge that we call faith. Faith in one another? No, faith that your God (read:Version of God) is correct. World leaders with their thumb on the pulse and a finger on the trigger. All this just to prove that they were right. How sad it is that when they come back, they will most likely be in a position to do it again...
So maybe his brother should get some credit......!
Say, hypothetically, that the Christians (especially the fundy types) are right. So this supreme being created us and gave us these wonderful brains. This god is more concerned about us believing in him than actually being decent people. So, he punishes anyone who doesn't believe in him as well as a heap of accompanying dogma. It doesn't matter if those people were born in a totally pagan country or if their experiences with the "ultimate truth" was tarnished by the hypocritical followers of said god. Burn in hellfire for eternity for not believing in the god who made you skeptical to begin with! If said god really exists, said god is not perfect in my opinion and not worthy of my worship.
If, however, I die and meet the creator of the universe (assuming there is one) and she (of course) is truly loving, is tolerant of indiscretions due to ignorance, has a great sense of humor (platypus, lol), and respects me for being skeptical and using my brain - that being might actually be worth worshipping. At which point, I'd say thanks for creating such an interesting universe and letting me enjoy my life without constant meddling from her.
The trick is to read through the bits that have been plagiarised and adapted by Men for their own use, in order to manipulate the masses, and to perceive the wholly good message beneath.... the old testament portrays a God who definitely seems to have a bad attitude towards anyone who says 'Well, God, I'll think about that...... No.'
The New Testament is sprinkled with what we now know is mainly hearsay and fairy-tale, when it comes to relating the history of Christ's birth and life.... The one gratifying spark of truth is Christ's own teachings to his disciples; St. Pauls letters to one and all and sundry.... Some of it is really very good!
Sections of the bible are quoted in many buddhist books, in order to illustrate that deep down, the main message is one of Love, Joy and Compassion, whatever your religious persuasion....
I don't know of one structured faith system that doesn't. To some extent, they all instruct/dictate all of the above. This is why Buddhism, although it does have firm guidelines and teachings, is so refreshing due to its' quite literal 'open-minded-ness'. It gives you the power and responsibility of deciding for yourself what course of action to take, in any given situation. It also allows for different decisions in seemingly similar or identical situations, because circumstances might be different. Oh, it's soooooo cool!!
Here is something I have always thought. If God created Adam and Eve i his own image then how is it that they were capable of sin? Does that mean God is imperfect and capable of sin?
No. But you are taking the story too literally. Remember that the Old Testament was written as a vehicle of instruction, by minds that are not as advanced, knowledge-wise as they are today. Every theologian without exception, will tell you quite emphatically that the story of creation was an illustrative story to explain the existence of Mankind and how we strayed from God. Nobody gives any credence to the story as factual concrete evidence..... And it is now accepted fact that it is we who created God in our Image....
That's why i don't believe in christianity - it's all about people telling you what to believe and how to believe.
I read this book (i read a lot!
I looked into buddhism because it was the only thing that gave a reason for life that made sense :bigclap: , if that makes sense?
Anyway, anyone who can tell me where to start if im gonna make sense of this that wud be great. Im new and confused!!!
Feel free to ask any of us any questions you may have. No doubt you'll get different interpretations from different sangha members - but that doesn't mean any of them are wrong.
Welcome, I am blessed to meet you!
Dave
It's a wonderfully comfortable, conforting, friendly, informative, happy site. I have visited others, but none so "cuddly and embracing" as this one! Hope you enjoy learning, growing and 'walking' with us - and we'll have a great deal of fun on the way, innat right BSF?!?
(American translation = I agree wholeheartedly!)
If they knew I was into buddhism, they would act very different towards me, and try to convert me to christianity.
(Its my boyfriends church, so I go to his games to support him)
What I would like to know is, Buddhism is about being open minded, and I am a very open minded person, but when it comes to God, and praying, why am I so uncomfortable? Why do I view God as fake. And this is a honest feeling, and I don't want to feel like that.
Oh gees..haha
I mean they huddled in a circle while someone spoke. I just step back. Maybe thats rude...but I can't help but to feel silly standing there talking to something or should I say someone I don't believe is real.
I mean they worship God, like we owe him something for giving us life. We didn't ask for a life. I mean yea, we should be happy we have it, but I mean why does it seem like it's held against us? Maybe not against us...do you get what I'm saying??
This past Sunday, my boyfriend was telling me that all their church service was for that day was a breakfast and a explanation of how they need to contribute to the church every year. And I'm thinking, thats kind of sad that they gather people to tell them about the budget of the church, instead of doing what they are suppose to be doing...learning about God.
Sorry, I get heated with churches... :mad: :banghead:
IMHO, "Churchianity" is the drop of bleach or arsenic that poisons the wholesome words that Jesus spoke, especially when they deliberately hide such 'gospels' as that attributed to Thomas.
Elsewhere, in the forum on Christianity, I have said that organisation brings corruption and a lust for power. It also depends on where we live and were brought up which of the organised religions we see as oppressive.
So, why, as one who sometimes calls himself a Buddhist Christian do I post in the atheist forum?
Because I am very dubious about all the "Supreme Being" stuff. As the Tathagata is reported as saying when asked about it, "In all my travels, I have never met such a one".
Of course, the vast majority of Christians would say that it is not possible to be a Christian without a belief in God. I am living and practising proof that it is quite possible and enriching of the spiritual life. The Buddha Shayamuni's turnings of the Wheel of Dharma do not require some anthropomorphic sadist in the sky to lead us to liberation - and neither do Jesus' teachings.
Part of the problem seems to be the need for there to be ueber-humans who reward or punish us and who can ride to our rescue like Lancelot saving Guinevere. God, whether we call God Allah or Yhwh or Father, seems to be an excuse for abdicating personal responsibility. It also requires that we check our intelligence at the door of the church or temple.
For many of us, I believe, the Dharma and its expression in Buddhism liberates us, first, from the dukkha of churches!
Mind you, it is quite fun to go to Christians and tell them that one is an atheist Christian.
If anyone is interested in exploring Christianity Without A Supreme Being, this could be a good place to do it, because so many of us are from 'Christendom'.
When I was young and growing up in France, I met many who could well be described as "ni croyants, ni pratiquants, mais tres catholiques".
I'm glad you're here. There is a lot of undue hostility directed towards Christianity that should really be focused on the workings of the church.
There are many pilgrims here who, I feel, would like to reconcile their new found love in the Buddha's words with their lifelong negative emotions towards the church. As this only causes conflict between themselves and their Dharma.
Hopefully you can eloquently show these sangha members a path that does not require antagonism towards other religions.
I feel you could bring a more practical form of advice than I could ever - due to your real life experince of being an atheist Christian.
I am Blessed to meet you.
I am quite surprised at the French attitude to religion... unlike Italy, which is my second-language country, France is extremely closetted when it comes to displaying its Religous affiliation. I have never encountered such sepraration of creed from daily life, ever. The two are like oil & water, and they definitely don't mix! Even church marriages are not recognised per se; they have to be preceded by a civil ceremony. I have quite a following among my pupils, ( I teach Qi Gong) but even there, their interest is limited to our times of practise together. Very odd.
I spent all my school holidays, from 1949, (4-5 months of each year), in Dieppe or in Annecy.
It was, particularly, in my beloved Normandy that I encountered Gallican Catholicism - a strange and shaggy beast. It is my opinion that we can never understand it without feeling, deep in our bones, the anti-clericalism of the Fourth and Fifth Republics. Indeed, the memory of the priest-ridden Ancien Régime is still with us.
There can be, to my mind, no better picture of this strange relationship than David's Sacre de Napoléon: there is the Pope, sitting behind the Emperor as he crowns a kneeling Joséphine. Napoléon had already crowned himself, the Pope being there solely as witness!
When I hear my USian friends speaking about separation of church and state, I wonder if they understand what it really means. In France, as you say, the divide is real and enduring. A personal example:
In 1961/2, my school, the French Lycée in London, was honoured by a visit from General de Gaulle. All the teachers wore academic dress (except our philo. master, but he was typically bloody-minded). The Catholic priests who ran the (enirely voluntary and outside-school-hours) cathéchisme (RE) classes were forbidden to wear their soutanes!
When, on leaving school and going up to Oxford, I came across the Established Church in all its glory, I was astonished. I still cannot quite get my head around the notion of Church and State in each other's embrace.
When my ex-wife and I split up, I was very depressed - more than the situation warranted. I came to realize that my suffering when beyond the sadness of the break-up. It was something else, but I couldn't put my finger on it.
Anyway, during one of those long dark nights, I started to have what can only be described as a spiritual experience with a Christian flavour, which went something like "..Oh God, please forgive me, please help me, I am in your hands...". Then all of a sudden I slapped myself and said "Wait a minute, this isn't right...".
Something inside me told me that this was not the answer. It felt seductive, but I knew the answer to my problem was not here. Merely "giving myself over" to God/Jesus/whatever was not going to address the source of my suffering.
Then one day soon after, I found a book called "Entering the Stream" - I don't even remember why I chose it. But the story of the Buddha leaving the comforts of home and family to find his answer filled me with the resolve to do it too. The message "I did it - you can do it" really resonated for me. I am the master of my destiny. I got myself into this mess, and I can get myself out of it. Faith is very powerful for coping with suffering, but it cannot remove the causes of suffering.
That was 10 years ago, and I've never looked back.
Ajani,
There are many Christians who do not 'look forward'. Jesus said that the basileia ('kingdom') is here and now, within us. The churches, in the interests of social control and wealth creation (for themselves) conceal this from the congregations.
you only ever see results from christianity when you die, its a blind leap of faith with no truth
But buddhism is the whole concept of truth and accepting what we know and see, i feel so much better.. I.. just .. dont know what else to say.. i'm just not as lonely anymore..
before i started reading about buddhism i felt a great burden of loneliness and i feel that much of its weight has been lifted..
sometimes i felt like i was going mad .. i just needed to be held so badly and i longed for a girl to hold me..
i am still lonely but i'm not suffering.. i accept that and i feel more confident.. i may not have very high standard's ,obviously they have to be female and near enough my age and show compassion.. little else matters to me.. point is i feel better since i started buddhism and much pain has left already
It's amazing how one can turn an ultimate hatred to actually adopt it as one of his spiritual roots in about a few years... Life amazes me at times...
feel free to argue that, but islam and judaism believe jesus was a prophet .. vs christianity where hes a son of god.. .. trust the rip off religion? or the originals? strangely enough islam and christianity owe a lot to the jews.. take that Nazi's woooahhaha lol
course i dont have your experience.. which book did you read?
There's this book by Thitch Thanh Huat you might like... It's entitled "Living Buddha, Living Christ"... Excellent, it just seems to make Buddhism not sound like a mimic of Christianity or vice versa, and in fact tell that BOTH ARE the same. Try and remove the notion of LABEL in your head to understand what I mean without myself sounding blasphemous or heretic. :rockon:
Questions, all?
Remember this occurrence, Ajani, and allow it to happen in all areas of your life more and more. This is flexibility and it will ensure a happier, more meaningful life for you.
Well done, sweet Ajani.