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Sexual misconduct and alcohol
Hey all.
I first considered Buddhism 2 years ago, and while I first dismissed it after several weeks of considering whether or not I felt I could adhere to the principles, I once again find myself drawn to its philosophy. I'm only 19 and at 17, abstaining from drink seemed quite a stretch. I was also weary of the ambiguity behind sexual misconduct.
My primary reasons for rekindling my interest in Buddhism are too show others more compassion and to become more comfortable within my own mind. I would hope that these are sufficient reasons to explore Buddhism. I'd feel like a tool stating that I'd wish to achieve enlightenment when I'm still a complete novice! However, I do wish that I could lead my life in a way that helps more people than it hinders.
I understand that the precepts are too be interpreted by the individual, but as a newbie could anyone clear up the general thought on the precepts regarding sexual misconduct and intoxicants. I'm sorry for asking any explicit questions, but I feel that they are pretty important.
From what I gather Tibetan Buddhism only acknowledges sex which could result in conception as appropriate sexual conduct. I'd personally regard sexual misconduct as rape, adultery and various other acts that are against the law (though I don't always equate morality with legality). I read that the Dalai Lama regarded masturbation, oral and anal sex as misconduct while vaginal intercourse is fine for lay people. However, I feel that all of these equate to pleasure in 99% of cases. Can anyone help me with this precept?
In my early teens I used to consume a lot of alcohol to the point where there would be huge gaps in my memory. Naturally, the lack of control and the sense of shame I felt after these incidents (and after I used to hear about my antics) has lessened my desire for alcohol. I still drink perhaps one or two drinks on certain occasions, where it would often seem rude to turn down a drink that had been paid for. Is this considered unreasonable? I've read that Tibetan monks may have to eat meat given to them under certain conditions. Although it isn't directly in violation of the first precept, I feel that this could be extended to alcohol too, as long as the mind doesn't become clouded (granted, that is only a couple of drinks for myself).
I'm sorry if these have been answered elsewhere, but I feel that the best way for me to research views on these particular topics is to interact with practicing Buddhists. Any replies would be greatly appreciated. I may not be able to respond at first, as it is roughly 00:15 and I still have some maths to do.
Thanks for your time.
I first considered Buddhism 2 years ago, and while I first dismissed it after several weeks of considering whether or not I felt I could adhere to the principles, I once again find myself drawn to its philosophy. I'm only 19 and at 17, abstaining from drink seemed quite a stretch. I was also weary of the ambiguity behind sexual misconduct.
My primary reasons for rekindling my interest in Buddhism are too show others more compassion and to become more comfortable within my own mind. I would hope that these are sufficient reasons to explore Buddhism. I'd feel like a tool stating that I'd wish to achieve enlightenment when I'm still a complete novice! However, I do wish that I could lead my life in a way that helps more people than it hinders.
I understand that the precepts are too be interpreted by the individual, but as a newbie could anyone clear up the general thought on the precepts regarding sexual misconduct and intoxicants. I'm sorry for asking any explicit questions, but I feel that they are pretty important.
From what I gather Tibetan Buddhism only acknowledges sex which could result in conception as appropriate sexual conduct. I'd personally regard sexual misconduct as rape, adultery and various other acts that are against the law (though I don't always equate morality with legality). I read that the Dalai Lama regarded masturbation, oral and anal sex as misconduct while vaginal intercourse is fine for lay people. However, I feel that all of these equate to pleasure in 99% of cases. Can anyone help me with this precept?
In my early teens I used to consume a lot of alcohol to the point where there would be huge gaps in my memory. Naturally, the lack of control and the sense of shame I felt after these incidents (and after I used to hear about my antics) has lessened my desire for alcohol. I still drink perhaps one or two drinks on certain occasions, where it would often seem rude to turn down a drink that had been paid for. Is this considered unreasonable? I've read that Tibetan monks may have to eat meat given to them under certain conditions. Although it isn't directly in violation of the first precept, I feel that this could be extended to alcohol too, as long as the mind doesn't become clouded (granted, that is only a couple of drinks for myself).
I'm sorry if these have been answered elsewhere, but I feel that the best way for me to research views on these particular topics is to interact with practicing Buddhists. Any replies would be greatly appreciated. I may not be able to respond at first, as it is roughly 00:15 and I still have some maths to do.
Thanks for your time.
0
Comments
Things like oral sex would be considered wrong by the person preforming the oral sex. This is because the mouth in considered a generally clean are, an are meant for consumption. While the genitalia would be considered a "Dirty" area.
As far as the alcohol goes, the whole concept is to have a clear mind at all times. As you have stated, this is interpreted in many ways. I have even heard tales of some monks having wine every now and then.
Again, clear mind and intention are the main things here. Are you using the threat of being rude as an excuse to have a drink? Or do you honestly feel as though taking the drink will do more good than harm?
I think it would be logical and help to connect with that wish to try to see how the precepts fit in with that vision. For instance drinking to a certain point perhaps makes you feel just a bit less comfortable and also can lead to harming yourself (hangover anyone?) or others (example anger).
I think the other, sex, can also see how it fits in with your existing wishes. I don't wish to say Da lai lama is wrong but I also do not see how masturbation is harmful or homosexuality. I think harming others would be sexualizing (even in thinking as is possible) a relationship where that would be harmful. Could be a child, incest, or married person. Perhaps peace of mind can come from less desire as well. But if your unable to stop and you feel divided ie guilty pleasures that would not be peace of mind. Might as well not commit to a proposition until you are ready.
The idea of the vows is to give yourself a little extra power in a situation. Like say you are very tempted to commit incest but you remember your vow and that the root of the vow is to protect self and other from harm.
So I would try to start with what I have. Remember that you can investigate buddhism and benefit to a certain extent prior to vows or refuge. Indeed you should wait till you understand what you are doing before you take vows or refuge in my opinion. But you don't have to wait till your perfect, because its not going to happen anytime soon as far as I've experienced
Also if you break a vow its possible to repair it. With different steps depending on the extent. Some buddhists have even killed many people and become liberated to a great extent. At least we have stories of them.
When practicing a religion that has a core teaching of "Get rid of your attachments", its hard to justify masturbation.
Sorry to end with a question again, haha, but i had to ask myself one day.
Am I truly in control of my masturbation habits? Or are my masturbation urges ultimately controlling me?
http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/precepts.html
Ideally, to understand Buddhism, to understand suffering is advantageous. Buddhism is not a set of rules or commandments.
In Buddhism, compassion is the wish to end suffering. In Buddhism, every teaching has one goal, which is to remedy suffering & harm and promote lasting happiness & benefit.
So any action that knowingly leads to suffering & harm, will be misconduct in Buddhism, both in relation to onself or another.
The Buddha taught all things have five qualities, namely:
(1) an origin or purpose;
(2) an ending or fulfilment;
(3) a pleasurable attraction;
(4) a danger or drawback; and
(5) a skilful means to escape the danger.
It follows if sex is viewed as pleasure in 99% of cases, it will be difficult to understand what sexual misconduct is in Buddhism because one is not seeing the matter from a broader perspective.
To understand sexual misconduct, it is required to see for oneself some of the sufferings & unbeneficial aspects that can occur from it.
Kind regards
DD
:smilec:
I find this guidance helpful also.
Hi nicky, and welcome....
I have to say, age (insofar as self-discipline and self-control) is concerned, is not really a valid argument. Certainly sexual conduct and drinking are age-related (with regard to legal obligation and social conditions) but with regard to personal control, such matters being learnt early, are beneficial...
Not important: Vital. How else you gonna learn stuff like this?
Clarifying any matters on Buddhist teaching is of paramount importance when so relevant to your own practice. After all, you're doing precisely what the Buddha taught....
Without wishing to start Tradition bashing (and I really don't) be mindful that much in Tibetan Buddhism is added later as a School-specific doctrine.
This is not the Buddha's original teaching.
To my mind - and please understand that this is my thinking, but has been confirmed as skilful by others in a position to know much better - Sexual Misconduct is basically anything which compromises the will, co-operation or happiness of another person.
It doesn't matter whether a person is homosexual, bi-sexual or heterosexual: if they would be put in a position of doing something which would bring them emotional, moral or physical discomfort - it's sexual misconduct. Simple.
many people find that the thought of giving up alcohol is unacceptable.
The decision is yours.
The skill lies in consuming alcohol if you so wish. But to never get to the point where it adversely affects your reasoning, logic, behaviour, speech and thinking. All things in Moderation.
Including Moderation.
You're confusing the issue here.
And information, if I may say so.
Tibetan Buddhism doesn't advocate vegetarianism, necessarily, although many Buddhists - form all traditions - are vegetarians, many aren't. So this is a different matter altogether....
The first precept covers all. Think about it - Taking that which is not freely given, is harming somebody's security and right to retain what is theirs.
Sexual Misconduct harms all those involved by stripping them of dignity and decency.
Inappropriate speech harms the person speaking as well as being slanderous (at worst0 or inconsiderate (at best)
Indulging in Alcohol is harmful and does a lot of damage, internally and socially, if indulged in carelessly....
Yuk! Maths!! Now that's just wrong!!
It's a pleasure....
I am sorry, I cannot answer that question for you:p
I would recommendm, here, you ask yourself if you can explain in dharmic terms why that would be so?
If you can see no reason, it might be wise to ask yourself if you will accept such a belief as being within your Dharma:)
I'll bet oral sex is quite a bit safer, and I daresay, less stinky than it was hundreds of years ago. I don't suppose it is really a high priority activity unless you do it for a living.
I'm not sure if i could explain in "Dharmic" terms, but i will try to by observation.
Overall, the main purpose of sex is for procreation. Vaginal intercourse would support the goal of procreation.
Contrary to other forms of stimulation, oral, anal, etc, which do not support the goal of procreation, and are merely to indulge in self pleasure. The pleasure could then potentially get in the way of ceasing attachments.
Again, thinking that the only appropriate time for intercourse is for reproduction is an extremely conservative view on that precept. (one that i do not share)
But it could show as to why some more conservatism branches (Tibetan?), could view the precept as such.
Thats the best ive got.
No that's a good explaintion and makes sense to me. Thank you, I hadn't thought of that before.
Very glad you dont share that view!:) Its 2010!:)
Mat
And i also, i meant to put "Dharmic" terms, not "Dogmatic", oops.
I reckoned that something like that:)
Mat
Napoleon Hill, in his famous book Think And Grow Rich, talked about a fascinating concept which he called "sex transmutation," whereby sexual energy could be stored and channeled in more productive ways. I have always thought Hill was onto something, but I have so far been unable to find anyone else talking about this possibility.
I do believe, though, that conserving one's personal energy is an important step along the road to self-mastery. I believe the Buddha's instructions on purity (as I understand them) are not merely a "moral" issue, but also a very pragmatic one: the more you dissipate your energy, the less power you have. Therefore the "high road" is not to release the energy, but to store it up, and learn to channel it.
Nice:)
Also keep in mind that in Buddhism there are no right actions and no wrong actions, only skillful and unskillful.
There is no distinct Tibetan Buddhist teaching on moral discipline. Monastics follow the Sarvastivadin Vinaya and Tibetan explanations of morality follow Mahayana teachers such as Nagarjuna, Asanga, and Shantideva. Any traditional text on the subject is filled with citations of Indian texts to justify the positions taken.
I'm seeing the argument that Tibetan Buddhism is not real Buddhism a lot on this board. It is not the strange animal you think it is.
I think what is infinitely more distractive than the said habit is the tension that accumulates in the young body if it doesn't get the release it's programmed for. If one is like most young guys that tension nearly drives one mad.
When I was about the age of the OP I ran into some "spiritual" teachings that said all sexuality was wrong. I wrestled and wrestled with myself, agonizing and obsessing over the issue over and over again. After a few years of periodic "defeats" (uneasy snicker
...I'm not saying every young guy has no choice but act on his urges but I suspect the vast majority (at least those who belong to the Western culture) are asking for a lot of pain if they go puritanical on themselves.