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Buddha, Dharma, Sangha

skydancerskydancer Veteran
edited March 2010 in Buddhism Basics
The triple gem, in these I take refuge. The three jewels are basic to all Buddhist paths. I thought we might discuss this topic from a position of common ground.

There are so many ways to gently work with these three. I take refuge in awakened mind, the path which leads to awakened mind and the community who walk this path.


What do you think?

Comments

  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited March 2010
    I think it is hard to really take refuge, i.e. really set your life in a right direction, because it implies change of behavior for me, and change of behavior sucks because it is usually followed by such annoying emotions. :S
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2010
    I take Refuge Morning and evening, and recite the Five precepts.
    I also have an elasticated bracelet, which is a constant reminder of my recitation and vow.
    It keeps me Mindful, and I know - I simply know - that without this morning and evening ritual, and without this bracelet, I would be less mindful and less skilful.
    Given that I fall flat on my face countless times during the day - you can only imagine how much worse I'd be, without this personal discipline!
  • NiosNios Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are my safety net, my spring board, my guides, my teachers, my family.

    Nios.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    NamelessRiver wrote: »
    I think it is hard to really take refuge, i.e. really set your life in a right direction, because it implies change of behavior for me, and change of behavior sucks because it is usually followed by such annoying emotions. :S

    You're in a Buddhist forum. Something in you finds some aspect of the path compelling to you. Take refuge in whatever that is for you.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Have been trying to follow the 5 precepts lately. Only place that I still slip is telling little white lies, specially to keep my mum calm :D Sometimes I feel that it's ok because the intentions are noble ... :D
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Just FYI, the "Sangha" that the triple gem refers to isn't really meant to be those who walk the path. All Buddhists walk the path. Instead, it is referring to the Ariya Sangha, all those who have attained stream-entry and beyond. This noble assembly is proof-of-concept for the Buddhist goal of awakening.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    Just FYI, the "Sangha" that the triple gem refers to isn't really meant to be those who walk the path. All Buddhists walk the path. Instead, it is referring to the Ariya Sangha, all those who have attained stream-entry and beyond. This noble assembly is proof-of-concept for the Buddhist goal of awakening.

    Thanks a lot for that information. I thought that sangha referred to the monks. But there are certain monks in this day an age who do not worth any more respect than a layperson who doesn't keep the five precepts
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited March 2010
    on that relative level, certain people do not accord respect, that is you would not treat the dalai lama the same as a lama who sniffs coke, but on the ultimate level, there is no difference between the two, they are on equal grounds, each having that ingrained buddha nature and potential, we be just giving into our prejudices and ego-commands to look down on wretchedness and exalt virtuousness when all things are the same, when all beings command respect as buddhas

    stephen, doesn't though the third gem we refer to nowadays mean any buddhist community no matter what their level of enlightenment
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Sangha always means the monastic order as far as I know except in the case of the Triple Gem. It's just one thing to keep in mind. We respect the monastic order for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which that they preserve the teachings and pass them down through the generations, but those who have achieved the goal are our examples; our assurance that it is possible to attain these states of unbinding.

    If no one in history had achieved these states other than the Buddha, we would simply be practicing the path because we were told it was the right thing to do; we would be expected to believe, rather than to achieve.

    I take refuge in the Buddha, the Ariya Sangha, and the Dhamma; but I wouldn't know any of this if not for the monastic Sangha. :)
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited March 2010
    this ariya sangha may be the highest sangha to take refuge, and we take refuge also in the general community of buddhists as an act of solidarity and shared goals
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Guess it's a matter of preference. There are many reasons that people may practice Buddhism, and so solidarity and shared goals are not a given. Some might keep the precepts and little else, and not be interested in abandoning the worldly life. Those who enter the monastic order do so in pursuit of the goal. The Ariya Sangha, on the other hand, are those who have walked the path rightly and have attained at least the stage of Sotapanna, or stream-entry. They give us confidence that the states of unbinding are possible.

    I fully respect students training to become medical doctors, but it is to the doctors themselves I would turn if I were physically injured. In the same way it is the Ariya Sangha that I take refuge in. That's just me; to each his own.

    (It just seems that every book, audio lecture, study guide, etc. that I've studied has made the distinction that it is this Ariya Sangha that is what the Triple Gem is referring to. Specifically.)
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    Just FYI, the "Sangha" that the triple gem refers to isn't really meant to be those who walk the path. All Buddhists walk the path. Instead, it is referring to the Ariya Sangha, all those who have attained stream-entry and beyond. This noble assembly is proof-of-concept for the Buddhist goal of awakening.
    In one way the sangha are the sublime beings with realization of the nature of mind.

    Another way the sangha are those who uphold the Buddha's teachings and the lineage transmission with pure motivation.
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    Yeah its usual meaning is the monastic order of bhikkhus or bhikkunis. For the Triple Gem, it either refers to the Ariya Sangha or both the Ariya Sangha and the monastic Sangha. All of my study sources have proclaimed the former rather than the latter, but at the very least it means the assembly of the enlightened.
  • DeshyDeshy Veteran
    edited March 2010
    I talked to a Buddhist monk in the nearby temple and he seems to be saying what Stephen says. In the "triple gem" the third gem is in reference to the Buddhist disciples who have reached at least one of the four levels (stream entry and so on to enlightenment). They are the "Ariya Sangha"; the noble ones who followed the Buddha's teachings and reached the goals thus as Stephen says are living proof that the goal is achievable here and now.

    The rest are just disciples (monastic monks included)
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    It may be helpful to consider all of us who walk the Buddha's path as worthy of bowing to.
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited March 2010
    I have almost always held that the very essence of the middle path is in all things to strive to increase peace, truth and happiness.

    Does anyone else here think that happiness might be signified by the Buddha, Truth by Dharma and peace by sanga?

    Salome:)

    Mat






    from ourselves to our nations, it is the ideal ideal that buddha has given us.
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    "Worthy of bowing to" sounds suspiciously egotistical. If it is to be about worthiness, it should be "worthy as an example of how to practice the path rightly". That is what the nobility of the Ariya Sangha is. That is why they are worthy. They are worthy to be examples for us all.

    Donald Trump is worthy as an example of how to be successful. Bill Gates is worthy as an example of how to create an empire based on a very buggy Operating System. The monastic Sangha is worthy as an example of a good way to find your way; the Ariya Sangha as an example of the fruit of the efforts of both lay and monastic disciples of the Buddha.

    I'm not even sure why I came back to post this. We already know this don't we? :)
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    "Worthy of bowing to" sounds suspiciously egotistical. If it is to be about worthiness, it should be "worthy as an example of how to practice the path rightly". That is what the nobility of the Ariya Sangha is. That is why they are worthy. They are worthy to be examples for us all.

    Donald Trump is worthy as an example of how to be successful. Bill Gates is worthy as an example of how to create an empire based on a very buggy Operating System. The monastic Sangha is worthy as an example of a good way to find your way; the Ariya Sangha as an example of the fruit of the efforts of both lay and monastic disciples of the Buddha.

    I'm not even sure why I came back to post this. We already know this don't we? :)
    Point is Americans don't like to bow to anyone. That's too bad. There's always someone to bow to since we all have Buddha nature.
  • StephenStephen
    edited March 2010
    I think you're missing the point sky dancer. Is a king worthy of bowing to simply because he is a king? We may bow to him as is traditional and required, but that does not make him worthy. A king is no different than any other man; he is lost in delusion. If we wish to think that "we" means to include monks, simply because we may be monks ourselves, that is our delusion speaking.

    Those who have broken free of delusion are worthy of emulation. They are the example of how to rise above, to remove the veil and live in a way in accord with nature.

    Let's not put down Americans; rather let's feel even more sympathy for them. The more sense pleasures we have, and the more we make that a part of our lives, the more lost we are. Americans live in conditions of pervasive sensuality that make it even more difficult for them.

    Any more talk about "bowing" to anyone... well, nevermind. Let's just leave it at that. ;) The self goes to a lot of trouble to have its way, to feel its way should be "the" way.
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Stephen wrote: »
    I think you're missing the point sky dancer. Is a king worthy of bowing to simply because he is a king? We may bow to him as is traditional and required, but that does not make him worthy. A king is no different than any other man; he is lost in delusion. If we wish to think that "we" means to include monks, simply because we may be monks ourselves, that is our delusion speaking.

    Those who have broken free of delusion are worthy of emulation. They are the example of how to rise above, to remove the veil and live in a way in accord with nature.

    Let's not put down Americans; rather let's feel even more sympathy for them. The more sense pleasures we have, and the more we make that a part of our lives, the more lost we are. Americans live in conditions of pervasive sensuality that make it even more difficult for them.

    Any more talk about "bowing" to anyone... well, nevermind. Let's just leave it at that. ;) The self goes to a lot of trouble to have its way, to feel its way should be "the" way.
    I have no problem with bowing. To what do we pay homage? The Three Jewels are a great place to start, from now until we attain the heart of enlightenment, we take refuge.
  • PietroPumokinPietroPumokin
    edited March 2010
    to bow is an act of selflessness and gratitude, i bow to the fork on my table for aiding me in renewing my flesh, i bow to the salt in my eye for giving me the hiccups, i bow to the river for letting me swim, i bow to the cow for helping me understand the now
  • stevejstevej
    edited March 2010
    Thought of sharing this quote in here about Buddhism as we contemplate on what we are taking refuge in:

    Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future:
    It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”
    Albert Einstein
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited March 2010
    steve j wrote: »
    Thought of sharing this quote in here about Buddhism as we contemplate on what we are taking refuge in:

    Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future:
    It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”
    Albert Einstein

    That's great and I think true.

    Lest not forget, Aliens are subject to Dharma too! (And Cylons)
  • dennis60dennis60
    edited March 2010
    What if the triple gems are more symbolic than physically "real", just a question.....no flaming please....:)
    "If we meet the Buddha on the road, we must kill him" I like that saying because the "Buddha" is not a thing. The only way to take refuge is to let go of all ones' preconceived
    ideas. Then we find escape from the dangers on self-delusions. This holds true with the Sangha, and the Dharma....they are not things or nouns, because they are ever changing and impermanent. The three gems are to remind us to "wash our own rice bowl" keep it fit for a open mind and heart as we traverse this life of suffering.
  • ansannaansanna Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Buddha, Dharma , Sangha are also refers to rely on the 3 type of learning to enlightenment

    Sangha - Ethic ( disciplines of noble conduct to prevent error, and put an end to evil in thought, word and deed )
    Dharma - Concentration ( the practice to tame , purify and calm the mind )
    Buddha - Wisdom ( enlightened wisdom, removed illusion and see the truth aspect of the reality )
  • MatSaltedMatSalted
    edited March 2010
    ansanna wrote: »
    Buddha, Dharma , Sangha are also refers to rely on the 3 type of learning to enlightenment

    Sangha - Ethic ( disciplines of noble conduct to prevent error, and put an end to evil in thought, word and deed )
    Dharma - Concentration ( the practice to tame , purify and calm the mind )
    Buddha - Wisdom ( enlightened wisdom, removed illusion and see the truth aspect of the reality )

    That's great. Hadn't thought of that. More facets to the three gems present themselves:)


    Salome

    Mat
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited March 2010
    Taking refuge in the sangha I take refuge in wholesomeness and virtue.
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