'Buddhism is not what you think' by Steve Hagen

David_2009

I was wondering, has anyone read this book 'Buddhism is not what you think', I saw it yesterday in a bookshop, and it seemed quite cool, but, I'd like to get some other opinions on it before I buy it.

Thanks for any help.

BTW, I may not be able to reply to this thread until Tuesday, as my laptop is currently broken and may not be fixed till next Tuesday, but, thanks for any replies till then .

David.

NamelessRiver

Haven't read it carefully, but it seems an odd title "Buddhism is not what you think". There is a book called "Unmasking Buddhism" and it is all about debunking myths about Buddhism. With a title like "Buddhism is not what you think" you would expect that this would be the subject of this book too, but apparently it has another goal.

The first part supposedly tells you why you are wrong. The second part says what is right to think. The third part is that moment between two people that agree with each other and think they are better than anybody else and just lick each others ego with vain philosophy.

The prologue says that it "is not an exploration of what the Buddha said and did; rather, it explores what the world reveals to all of us, right now, in this moment." I.e. it is a book written by someone who thinks he does a better job than the Buddha in explaining...the present moment?

So it's not about Buddhism myths, it is not about the Buddha. So what the hell is it about? And why the title is Buddhism is not what you think? It should be something like This Book Is Not What You Think.

Anyways, zen books...Nothing against Zen Buddhism, but people looooove to use Zen as an excuse for superficial knowledge, ego licking (this is my new expression, you will probably see it a lot in my posts from now on :P), and butchering the doctrine. If you want a real Zen book go read one written by a Zen Master, not some dude who thinks he knows it all.

I repeat, I haven't read it, I skimmed through it, but superficially it seems to suck because it goes all one note in talking about direct experience. Why the hell do you need 300 pages to tell someone to experience things directly? Is this effective, at all? If I tell you to live in the present moment will that do you any good? No, not really.

Dude I am telling you, all chapters in this book are like this: "somewhere in a cold mountain japan" plus "when I was a kid" plus "we all think like this" plus "we should have direct experience". That is all, like twinkle twinkle little star variations.

You have fear, doubt, confusion, aversion, craving, and other difficult emotions to deal with in the present moment. Someone needs to give you a clue on how to deal with them, otherwise it is just worthless.

The most interesting buddhist teachings are the ones that teach you to turn trash into flowers. Look for this type of book, not ones that say "hey you are dumb because you can't see the real universe", "I can't tell you how to do that either because it has to be directly experienced" "It feels like cold and hot at the same time" "There was some dude drinking water and saw a frog eating a snake - then he got enlightened".

David_2009

Thanks NamelessRiver, I may look fpr another book now, do you think Suzuki(sp?)'s book 'Zen Mind, Beginners Mind' is a better one for Zen Buddhism?.

Again, thankyou very much for your help, that's the reason why I didn't want to buy it at first.

David.

RenGalskap

David_2009 wrote: »

Thanks NamelessRiver, I may look fpr another book now, do you think Suzuki(sp?)'s book 'Zen Mind, Beginners Mind' is a better one for Zen Buddhism?.

I haven't read "Buddhism is not what you think", so I can't say if ZMBM is better. I can say that ZMBM is excellent.

MatSalted

NamelessRiver wrote: »

The most interesting buddhist teachings are the ones that teach you to turn trash into flowers. Look for this type of book, not ones that say "hey you are dumb because you can't see the real universe", "I can't tell you how to do that either because it has to be directly experienced"

What if you don't mind if it is dull
So long as its true?
Gimme a yabba
And a dabba
And a yabba daba DO;)

questionful

Some guy at a nearby "Insight Meditation Center" wrote this book:

The Issue at Hand

I like it.

Jeffrey

Stephen Hagen has practiced for a long time. I haven't read that book for awhile but I suspect it is not the flavor you are used to. But I think its actually the same teachings just different flavor.

Glow

questionful wrote: »

Some guy at a nearby "Insight Meditation Center" wrote this book:

The Issue at Hand

I like it.

lol, that "some guy" is Gil Fronsdal. You're very lucky to have him nearby. He's an excellent teacher.

jinzang

Steve Hagen teaches in the style of most American Soto Zen, which would like to dispense with supernatural elements such as karma and rebirth. Much of what the author writes shows genuine insight, and if you share his approach to Buddhism, you will like it. But his approach to Buddhism is not mine.

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind is a collection of talks on Soto Zen focusing on practice and buddha nature. It's not a book that explains Buddhism, but practitioners, especially Zen practitioners, will find it helpful.

David_2009

RenGalskap wrote: »

I haven't read "Buddhism is not what you think", so I can't say if ZMBM is better. I can say that ZMBM is excellent.

Thanks, I may check it out one day.

questionful wrote: »

Some guy at a nearby "Insight Meditation Center" wrote this book:

The Issue at Hand

I like it.

Thanks for that link, that book looks quite interesting.

jinzang wrote: »

Steve Hagen teaches in the style of most American Soto Zen, which would like to dispense with supernatural elements such as karma and rebirth. Much of what the author writes shows genuine insight, and if you share his approach to Buddhism, you will like it. But his approach to Buddhism is not mine.

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind is a collection of talks on Soto Zen focusing on practice and buddha nature. It's not a book that explains Buddhism, but practitioners, especially Zen practitioners, will find it helpful.

Thanks for the tip about both Hagen and ZMBM, I'll definitely remember that .

David.

xabir

David_2009 wrote: »

I was wondering, has anyone read this book 'Buddhism is not what you think', I saw it yesterday in a bookshop, and it seemed quite cool, but, I'd like to get some other opinions on it before I buy it.

Thanks for any help.

BTW, I may not be able to reply to this thread until Tuesday, as my laptop is currently broken and may not be fixed till next Tuesday, but, thanks for any replies till then .

David.

Hi, I think Steve Hagen's insights into our true nature is very profound and he has some very good advice and insights to share with practitioners. He is very clear about distinguishing concepts and direct perception of awareness and its nature. He is very clear, not just conceptually but from experience about emptiness, impermanence, no-self, and its relation to Buddha-Nature, and I find this rare. It is not common to see such depth of clarity and insight even among teachers. I think Steve Hagen is one of the clearest Zen teachers I have read. I highly recommend 'Buddhism is not what you think'. (I also collected three of his books: Buddhism Is Not What You Think: Finding Freedom Beyond Beliefs; Meditation Now or Never; Buddhism Plain & Simple)

Buddhism Is Not What You Think is his 'deeper'/'more indepth' books so there may be some parts (though not all) where it is not at once easily grasped, but I find it very important and contains the essence of Buddhism.

I wrote a short review (it's rare I write book reviews in my blog) in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/04/buddhism-is-not-what-you-think.html

xabir

jinzang wrote: »

Steve Hagen teaches in the style of most American Soto Zen, which would like to dispense with supernatural elements such as karma and rebirth. Much of what the author writes shows genuine insight, and if you share his approach to Buddhism, you will like it. But his approach to Buddhism is not mine.

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind is a collection of talks on Soto Zen focusing on practice and buddha nature. It's not a book that explains Buddhism, but practitioners, especially Zen practitioners, will find it helpful.

On the contrary, I think it does a great job at explaining some of the core teachings of Buddhism like the dharma seals, emptiness, buddha-nature, etc, and encouraging the practitioner to look at these not just conceptually in one's direct experience.

I do not think he denies rebirth (though neither does he discuss about post mortem rebirth). He however is very clear at differentiating Hinduism's reincarnation which requires a self/soul, and Buddhism's rebirth which is momentary without self.

lightwithin

I enjoy the way Steve Hagen addresses his readers in a clear, concise and easy-to-grasp way. I think his way of writing appeals more to the western mind, and maybe it's because he's a Zen priest, but he literally strips Buddhism from all it's acquired cultural and esoteric aspects and gives you the meat and potatoes of it, which is basically direct experience and how to really SEE the moment and reality.

I am currently reading his book "Buddhism Plain And Simple" and I am enjoying it a lot, but I do admit he literally over-does it in saying all our attachments and problems will go away if we all just learn to really SEE. He drives that point home almost too much.

I think Zen Buddhism is very simple in nature and this is where Steve Hagen derives his style. In "Buddhism Plain And Simple" it's almost as he travels a very thin line so as to not "scare off" western, reason-driven readers, with anything overly doctrinal or esoteric and he makes a big effort to simplify things as much as possible. Some people don't find this helpful or valuable.

As a newcomer to meditation and Buddhism, the very simple aproach of Zen, seems to resonate highly with what I'm trying to accomplish and learn and with the way I am, and if you are looking for a book that strips Buddhism of almost all it's cultural and esoteric aspects, leaving it to be a very simplified life philosophy, that has been already partially "digested" for you beforehand, I think Hagen's books would be for you.

If you do well with the more abstract and complex teachings and you want to digest and process the WHOLE of it on your own terms, I would suggest looking elsewhere.

Theswingisyellow

Overall I think the book i fine. It makes some good points and is simple in its approach. If one had litle knowledge of Buddhism I think it would help to explain certain principles and ideas. Zen was where I started so the tone and flavor is something I am used to. I certainly don't think it is trash or flowers.:rolleyes:
Yours in the Dhamma,
Todd

[DeletedUser]

The prologue says that it "is not an exploration of what the Buddha said and did; rather, it explores what the world reveals to all of us, right now, in this moment."

If "in this moment" refers to one's present consciousness in bliss, and worlds of realm refers to ourselves then it is another piece of good exegesis.