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Is reincarnation and rebirth the same or is there a difference?
Hi everyone. Is reincarnation and rebirth the same thing or is there a difference? 
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Ah okay thanks! Just a quick question. Do Buddhists believe in reincarnation or rebirth?
For me, they are different. Reincarnation is more of a meta-physical teaching (i.e. about body & mind) whereas rebirth is more of a moral teaching (i.e. about karma & its results).
I think a good illustration of the difference is the famous Hindu text the Bhagavad Gita.
Here, there was a man named Arjuna who was considering whether to participate in a war because the honor of his family was insulted (or something like that).
Arjuna took advice from God (Krishna) who advised him the soul cannot be cut; that when the body is killed the soul simply finds another body.
It followed going to war and killing other human beings was deemed to be OK.
But the Buddha taught rebirth according to one's actions (karma).
If one kills other human beings, one is reborn in hell or in another state of deprivation.
That is my view.
Kind regards
DD
Ah okay. Thanks!
Such beings are reborn as Tulkus. But they're not direct, absolute carbon-copies. Their essential consciousness transmigrates into a new being, who is also a new and individual being in their own right.
Theravada Buddhism does not ascribe to reincarnation.
Interesting.
They have to reach an age of Maturity and be able to use their own wisdom, discernment and knowledge before they can be a fully-fledged lama....
AFAIK.....
I cant find any significant difference between rebirth and reincarnation or, it has to be said, rebirth and heaven, ghosts or valhalla.....
Maybe this will be helpful.
What he said.
federica (as always) put it well.
Tibetan Buddhists teach that "reincarnation" is a deliberate and chosen rebirth that can only be done by advanced practitioners.
Tibetans teach that "rebirth" is for the rest of us, being blown wherever by the nature of our undisciplined reactions, fears, attachments.
No it's not reincarnation because of marks of existence, but but but...
(1) Did Buddha teach on re-incarnation? If he did, what was taught?
(2) Did Buddha teach on re-birth? If he did, what was taught?
If both re-incarnation and re-birth can co-exist then they are not mutually exclusive. In either case, there are clearly distinct metaphysical differences. What are they?
What had been troubling me and consequently my confusion is that I had read from a Buddhist source that the Karmic law is both universal and natural. This means that one cannot defy it and bend the rules. Re-incarnation seems to suggest the laws can be circumvented.
As one who is not able to circumvent laws (neither universal nor natural), I cannot be of any assistance in answering your question.
There's nothing wrong with confusion or having an answered/unanswerable question, except we don't like the discomfort of this. Part of practicing Buddhism is letting go of the need for "ground under our feet".
This made it VERY clear for me. Thanks for your input Foible.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/bps-essay_46.html
read my posts #6 and #8....
According to Tibetan Buddhism only highly elevated Lamas can reincarnate. They return as Bodhisattvas. Bodhisattvas are enlightened beings who reject the opportunity of passing into Nibbana in order to return and help all beings understand suffering, and end it.
So Yes, Bodhisattvas 'circumvent ' natural law, but they have eliminated all Negative Kamma. so They don't count.
Given that mankind has some kind of recorded history of at least 5,000 plus years we know we have been around at least for this length. I am assuming that samsara has been given enough time to work its course and since the karmic rule is universal and natural, I have a basic question.
Are all the births that we know of today connected to re-birth (karmic dependent) as opposed to birth (karmic independent)? In other words, the estimated 7 billion people alive today has it come about because of re-birth? How do we account for a continually growing population?
Brumby, it seems like you are refering to reincarnation, not rebirth.
I take rebirth to mean being reborn moment to moment.
Every moment, our physical construct varies. We are constantly digesting, percieving, and decaying. We are changing every moment.
A zen man would call this "Living as a dying being", meaning we are being reborn moment to moment.
Some people use the buddhist "realms" as metaphors to what we can be reborn into right now. The hell realms could be ultimate depression and distress, while nirvana would be the end of suffering in this body, right now.
I believe that reincarnation is considered to be the physical transfer from our body to something else when we die.
I am not sure if the Buddha actually taught reincarnation, and would love to be informed on that topic.
I am being very specifc with my question. I am referring to re-birth and not re-incarnation. I have asked enough questions on this forum to understand that re-incarnation is not mainstream Buddhism (just Tibetan Buddhism) and the difference (between re-incarnation).
I'm sorry, you're going to have to work this one out for yourself. The Buddha explained that the Laws of Kamma are unconjecturable.
There may well be an answer, but finding it might send you mad. Most Buddhists give up on trying to work this one out.
Our main focus returns to The origin of suffering, and the cessation of suffering.
This may seem a cop-out, but I'll tell you what. If you manage to come up with a definitive answer, do me a great favour and come back and tell me what a cop out this is.
I'll be happy to listen, really, I will.
hence, if his audience is heavily influenced by the Brahmic teaching of karma and reincarnation, the Buddha borrowed those terms but redefined them to the correct perspective according to his enlightened wisdom.
the fault of those brahmic teaching presumed that there is an unchanging essense/agent in the universe which known 'self', and karma as the heavy unchangable bond/chain pre-destiny on one life that one is powerless to change it, and leads to the unjust social caste system .
this the Buddha clearly broke them , and taught that what link across one life rebirth to another is only the causes.
Breaking down buddhism and teaching it is impossible.
Buddha thought in subtle ways. A true buddhist knows this.
There is no karma. No hell. No heaven.
There is only the worldview of the individual.
If there is a hell or a heaven, they both fight for
the same thing -> Existence, that's where the real shit is at.
No examples can be used to teach it.
Dharma is attained only through self-teaching.
Any form of group-oriented teaching is of cultist mindsets. And these mindsets are filled with greed.
There is no math that can allow an equation between greed and nothing.
Greed is ultimate influence in this existence and nothing is it's opposite.
Dharma is nothing. Nothing can't be influenced. Therefore greed isn't needed or intended to be needed.
Instead, I feel rebirth more accurate, as its has another kind of connotation; we could say that reincarnation may fall under the category of a rebirth theory, but rebirth per se would be something like the phenomena of birth happening again. Now, if we know the teaching of the Pratityasamutpada, and under a Karmic (causality) comprehension of events, then we could check were are the reasons for this "rebirth".
Now, "what" is having rebirth? Then we could appeal to the mental continuum not being entirely separate from matter, but as the conscious activity: remember that an individual is conformed by the 5 aggregates, it is incorrect to say that the individual is only one aspect of it, neither Manas ("mind", Nama) aspect alone, nor just "Vijñaña".
I've been starting to study the Yogachara perspective, I don't know too much, but imho, the problem of rebirth becomes a little easier to explain from that point of view when one adds the two other consciousness to the first six, to explain in a more phenomenological first point of view the phenomena of rebirth: Alayavijñaña as a recipe for Karmic seeds, etc. It gives a more clear sense of "continuity".
P.S.: Buddha did teach metaphysics... Imo Buddhadharma is strongly metaphysical: the 3 mark of existence are nothing but universal and necessary condition of phenomena. (Sankhara the first two, and the more general Dharma the third).
As for rebirth (vs. literal reincarnation), I have had too much personal experience with feelings (indistinct, but very real) that I've known certain people before, or been places before, and so forth. In fact, I don't even remember when I first started believing that I'd been here before. I can't remember ever *not* believing that, even as a child. And certainly *nobody* taught that to me. I was raised in a traditional American WASP household and went to church and Sunday school every week. I sure didn't get it from the Lutheran catechism!
Ultimately it's unknowable in this lifetime anyway, but it's fun to ponder.