Tantra - Hindu or Buddhist?

David_2009

I wasn't sure where to put this, so, if someone wants to move it, please feel free .

I was wondering something, I've been reading quite a bit on Tibetan Buddhism, and Buddhist Tantra has come up, but, was Tantra first developed by Hindus or Buddhists?, it's just I've read various things which either say Tantra was developed by Hindus, and spread out to Buddhism, or vice-versa, it was developed by Buddhists and then Hindus adapted it, or was it some kind of combination?.

Thanks for any help.

David.

Jeffrey

Did you see this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra_techniques_(Vajrayana)

David_2009

Thanks for that site.

David.

Palzang

I checked out the wikipedia site - pretty funny! Spells and incantations?! C'mon! Whoever wrote that has no idea what Vajrayana is about. Sorry.

Tantra was originally from the Vedic culture (there was no Hinduism back then per se), but in Buddhism it has nothing to do with sex (other than some of the symbolic imagery). It is called a quick means to enlightenment because it uses techniques such as visualization and yogic methods in order to use all of one's resources to move towards enlightenment.

Palzang

pegembara

Hi Palzang,

Is this how it works?

Another stratagem, Tantric Buddhism, is nearly the reverse. Conscious thought, at least the way we usually do it, is the manifestation of ego, the you that you usually think that you are. Conscious thought is tightly connected with self-concept. The self-concept or ego is nothing more than a set of reactions and mental images which are artificially pasted to the flowing process of pure awareness. Tantra seeks to obtain pure awareness by destroying this ego image. This is accomplished by a process of visualization. The student is given a particular religious image to meditate upon, for example, one of the deities from the Tantric pantheon. He does this in so thorough a fashion that he becomes that entity. He takes off his own identity and puts on another. This takes a while, as you might imagine, but it works. During the process, he is able to watch the way that the ego is constructed and put in place. He comes to recognize the arbitrary nature of all egos, including his own, and he escapes from bondage to the ego. He is left in a state where he may have an ego if he so chooses, either his own or whichever other he might wish, or he can do without one. Result: pure awareness. Tantra is not exactly a game of patty cake either.

http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Venerable_Henepola_Gunaratana:_Chapter_3:_What_Meditation_Is

Palzang

That sounds like a good explanation of it. Thanks. It's interesting that when one visualizes oneself as a deity you don't visualize yourself as a solid being but as a being of light. Also, when you finish the practice, you dissolve the visualization into light. This reinforces the impression that ego is just an illusion and has no solid existence.

Palzang

fivebells

The light represents awareness.

Palzang

Yes, and it also represents insubstantiality.

Palzang

Olarte

Palzang, my understanding is that Wikipedia is open for anyone to edit and make corrections... I wonder if you would be interested in taking a crack at making needed corrections? I'm not kidding either, I think it would be a benefit for those that rely in Wikipedia for basic\general knowledge...

Palzang

Well, maybe. My experience with Wikipedia is mixed. Sometimes you change things that are blatantly wrong or that are attacking someone and it just gets changed right back. People with an agenda don't back off easily, and there's no way you can prevent them from changing what they will. On the other hand, I did fix the article on colostrum, which was very wrong and misinformed, and nobody complained that I know of.

However, if you know of anything that looks wrong, let me know. I'll take a look at it.

Palzang

Olarte

Sounds good although I know next to nothing (so I would not know what to point out at this point) which is why it's great for someone like you to recitfy what you can on a wikipedia which many of us look for as a reference.

Palzang

Actually there is an alternative to the regular Wikipedia called Rigpa Wiki which is operated and maintained by the Rigpa Shedra (Shedra is a monastic university). I think you will find the information there much more reliable than on the regular Wiki. Of course, it's mainly from a Tibetan Buddhist viewpoint, but all the basics are covered. You can get there here.

Palzang

Olarte

Hi Palzang, thank you so much for the information. It made my day. I'm actually very interted in Tibetan Buddhism, and Shambhala Meditation. I just started going to the Shambhala Meditation center her in Providence, RI and the Riki Wiki site is perfect for me right now.

For others who might be interested the site is http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

By the way, these are some links about the Shambhala training that I'm referring to.

http://shambhala.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala_Buddhism


Thank you again,

have a wonderful day!
ivan

fivebells

Just remembered this essay, which may be interesting, although it doesn't address the original question regarding the cultural roots of tantra:

In order to help clarify the nature and purpose of deity practice, I discuss it here in a way that gives one the actual flavor of this practice; that is, the sense of what might actually be happening experientially in deity practice. I also suggest an approach to deity practice that doesn’t depend on one’s ability to visualize vividly. After all, the purpose of this practice is not to generate sparkling imagery but to transform the way we experience the world and ourselves. Finally, for those who take up this practice, I suggest ways you might use the deity to be awake and present in your life.

kurra

Tantras come from the ancient Dravidian culture of South India and it's Shiva cults in particular. So Hinduism, I'm guessing, depending on your definition of the term.

David_2009

fivebells wrote: »

Just remembered this essay, which may be interesting, although it doesn't address the original question regarding the cultural roots of tantra:

Thanks for that link .

David.