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planes of existence - mental states
according to one theory,the different planes(loka) of existence(frm highest heaven to lowest hell) are actually not anything 'physical',but rather states of consciousness.and this states are reflected/experienced in our everyday(every moment) of life.
if this is true,then what are you guys doing everyday(spiritual practice),to 'descend into the subtlest/ascend to the highest' level so that the probability of God-realization/Nirvana becomes 99.9999%?
here we are assuming there are really levels(or stations - as the sufis call 'em)which stretch frm the closest to 'God' to farthest.
anybody care to share?
if this is true,then what are you guys doing everyday(spiritual practice),to 'descend into the subtlest/ascend to the highest' level so that the probability of God-realization/Nirvana becomes 99.9999%?
here we are assuming there are really levels(or stations - as the sufis call 'em)which stretch frm the closest to 'God' to farthest.
anybody care to share?
0
Comments
As to your quote, "descend into the subtlest/ascend to the highest", the attainment of the Jhanas (states of deep meditative absorption) could be associated. However, it is only in a deeper knowledge of how the mind works that these are beneficial. As someone else pointed out, chasing after desirable states is a problem. I can tell you from experience that the first Jhana is like being wrapped in joy/bliss, and if this was viewed as a goal rather than a learning experience people might spend an inordinate amount of time in the Jhana states.
God is of the world (lokiya).
There are many god realms, such as deva-realm (worldly power, like a politician or dictator), brahma realm (love & compassion), radiant god realms (meditative absorptions), divine realms (supernormal powers), etc.
Mental realms we can verify, such as addictions (hungry ghost) or unvirtuous instinctual behaviour (animal) or humane realm (conscience & concern).
But other worlds in other places is speculative but with moral benefit.
but the question is how *to approach* the object of awareness as to see it's true nature - how to "descend and ascend" ?
hopefully this article will make my intention/view clearer (regarding changing states vs. *station* :
State and Station
Progress on the path brings new and unusual experiences: some confusing, some exhilarating, most unexpected, and nearly all deeply satisfying. These markers along the way confirm the rightness of our efforts. But the undeniable attraction of spiritual experiences may lead us, counter-productively, into pursuing them as an end in themselves. However, it is not our purpose in the path to chase after new and fleeting experiences, as if the spiritual world were an amusement park. Rather we embark on a steady quest for permanent changes in our level of being, a quest to be able to serve more deeply. We need not play the spiritual tourist in a sacred land, snapping photos as keepsakes of our journeys. Instead we seek to become residents of that land. Sublime spiritual experiences, in themselves, do not necessarily indicate changes in our level of being.
The Sufis offer a clear description of these issues with their two terms: state and station. States are temporary experiences, which come and go. Regardless of how high a state we might enter, we return to the same station when the state departs. Our station describes our level of being, our stable inner home, characterizing our usual modes of living and perceiving, defining the limitations of our daily life. We may even experience states corresponding to a very high station, but unless our being changes, we soon fall back to states more typical of our true station..
We can describe states and stations in terms of their characteristic energies. For example, we usually operate on the automatic energy. Thus, our station, our starting point in the spiritual journey is the automatic energy and the particular patterns and habits it drives in us. Sometimes an intense experience may shake us out of our autopilot mode: perhaps a beautiful sunrise touches us. At that moment, we temporarily live in the next higher energy, the sensitive, more aware of ourselves and our surroundings. Life vividly blossoms and fills us. A short time later finds us mired once again in our habitual patterns, associative thoughts and daydreams. Then we remember the state we entered during the sunrise, how wonderful we felt. We tell ourselves and our friends about how much progress we have made on the spiritual path and offer the sunrise experience as proof. We even begin to daydream about our progress, about how much we have learned and changed.
The problem is we have not changed. We still live primarily in the automatic energy. And instead of diligently pursuing the practices that could help us awaken by creating our stable home in the sensitive energy, we daydream about former glories. Passing experiences, passing states do not signify a change in our station, in our level of being. Bearing in mind this distinction, pointed out so powerfully by St. John of the Cross, helps us persist in our practice and prevents us from being sidetracked by high states. Wonderful experiences will come. We do not try to hold onto them, nor do we reject them. In fact, mulling over or boasting about them, even to ourselves, saps their benefit to us. We just let them come and go, without attachment, while we keep up our practice.
All this is not meant to imply that the experience of higher states constitutes a problem in itself. The problem only occurs if we grow attached to or identified with the state. But these higher than normal states can indicate progress toward permanent change of station. The new experience encourages us to continue the inner work. The excitement and enthusiasm in their wake enable us to practice more than before. This new level of practice may even repeatedly propel us into the new state. Alas, the excitement inevitably wanes, our practice diminishes, the new state stops visiting us, and we slip back to where we were before.
Then we face the challenge of strengthening our inner work without the immediate gratification of the higher states we have tasted. This situation calls us to a steadfast, sober, and mature practice, bolstered by the faith awakened by our earlier experiences. Persistence pays, though. Perhaps after several cycles of this whole process and some years of practice, the higher state gradually becomes more normal for us, we enter it as our new and natural domain, and some of our old attachments no longer control us. Then we accelerate our practice again and we reach a tipping point. In retrospect, we discover that our station, our being has changed and we have a new freedom.
And then we practice more.
an interesting speculation is this : if a person remain his/her entire life in - let's say "hungry ghost realm" (uncontrollable desires and addictions - drug addicts,sexual obsessor etc... )after death ,what will be this persons environment/realm?)
I am not sure. And you are right about speculation. It is more just an exercise on viewing/understanding the different a priori's we carry around. I do not believe in an after life. So your question i can not answer. I do not think that a person remains totally in one state. They transform. Sometimes very slowly, but other times not so long.
There is not an ascention or descention involved. No approach is needed. The true nature of objects simply presents to a mind that is undistorted by identification with objects. This "True" mind is realized through negation.
This post describes this process ...
http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92244&postcount=20
Incidentally... notice that in the Bhavacakra all the realms, both heavenly and hellish, are equidistance from the centre of the wheel.
Regarding the 6 realms and Tibetan Buddhism, if one speaks offline to a Tibetan Buddhist teacher about the 6 realms they will probably tell you that they can be interpreted as mental states. This certainly happened in my own experience.
With regard to different interpretations of the language of Dharma this talk might be of interest:
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books5/Bhikkhu_Buddhadasa_Two_Kinds_of_Language.htm
.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.063.than.html
Exploring those states doesn't get us closer or further from anything, rather they are reflections of what is. While travelling, it isn't the destination that defines us, but how we carry ourselves and relate to where we are. The trick, if there is a trick, is to see it how it is, no matter how painful or joyous it is, just notice it... then keep moving. Our "station" in the Sufi vernacular will evolve naturally as we continue to practice, relate and move on. In breath, gap, out breath, gap.
Dazzle,
The way it was taught to me (Tibetan) was that those realms aren't really states, because there are no lines, boundaries or static qualities to make the mind set in those ways. Rather, they are an observed set of patterns or ruts that people sometimes have in response to stimuli that arise in the world. The goal of identifying with the realms in that way is not to attempt to move between them, but see how we also have the various ruts of those realms in our journey. It is rare to find a person, including ourselves, who is exclusively "in" one.
But, as a helpful tool in seeing and relating more directly to archetypal patterns people display...
With warmth,
Matt
The way it was explained privately to me by a Tibetan tulku many years ago, was that, for example, if one has been behaving in a very ignorant way, then one is 'reborn' into the mental state represented by the animal realm.
One can therefore theoretically be in more than one realm in a day, depending on one's fluctuating emotions. They're really just a useful way of representing the klesas.
Kind regards,
Dazzle
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