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Is Buddhism compatible with Time Travel?

edited April 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Howdy,

If time travel were possible that means you could travel back in time and teach one of your previous lives The Middle Way all the way to enlightenment and thus making that karmic being enlightened and fully escaped from samsara in which case your karmic being would not have been able to go back to teach dharma in the first place, ergo, time travel is not possible.

I rest my case:cool:

Comments

  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited April 2010
    MatSalted do you want me to pose you a few philosophical questions about the Dharma? :P
  • Quiet_witnessQuiet_witness Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Can you move your left hand clockwise in a circular motion over your head while your right hand is moved counter clockwise in a circular motion over your stomach?
  • edited April 2010
    MatSalted do you want me to pose you a few philosophical questions about the Dharma? :P

    Sure, but how about just one for starters and we can all try to answer it. But nothing woo or mystcial please:)

    Mat
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited April 2010
    * What effect, if any, does our lack of knowledge about the life of the Buddha have on your understanding of his teachings?

    * Which features of the Buddha’s teachings allowed it to flourish in contexts outside of India? Why?

    * What are the strengths and weaknesses of presenting the Buddha’s teaching as analogous to the practices of a medical doctor?

    * How does the fact that the Buddha taught for forty-five years to various kinds of audiences affect the form and content of his teachings?

    * What was the connection between intellectual activities and ascetic practices in the Buddha’s awakening and realization of Nibbana?

    * How and why would intellectual and meditative practices be causes of awakening?

    * In what ways is the Abhidhamma understanding of paticca-samuppada different from the Theravada, Madhyamaka, and Yogacara interpretations?

    * How does mindfulness help one transcend conventional truth and see the ultimate truth?

    * How are the ‘‘Three Marks’’ related to one another for their existences and how are they related to the Buddha’s teaching on interdependent arising?

    * What specific philosophical problems are created by the etymology of ‘‘Nibbana?’’

    * Why do you think the Buddha refused to answer questions about Nibbana?


    Hehehehe feel free to indulge yourself in thinking these over. :P
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Mat, feel free to pick one and open a new thread. You don't have to answer them all at once. Each of these is challenging in their own way. I can supply you with lots more, muahahahaha. Isn't this more fun than discussing rebirth? :P
  • edited April 2010
    Time is just a word. What it really is... is our measure of change. In order to "time travel", you'd have to undo all of the changes between now and then, basically throwing whatever causes Dependent Origination to work in reverse. I don't think the fundamental laws of how the universe works, how reality works, can be thwarted by humans. We might as well be discussing how to create something permanent. We're Buddhists. :)
  • edited April 2010
    Thanks for those:)

    My answer below, I look forwards yo your criticism and other peoples attempts to answer your questions:)

    * What effect, if any, does our lack of knowledge about the life of the Buddha have on your understanding of his teachings?

    I assume he may never have existed and that we must start from First principles using the texts and teachings as old maps, rather than GPS:)

    * Which features of the Buddha’s teachings allowed it to flourish in contexts outside of India? Why?

    I don't really see that the teachings of Buddha have flourished, Buddhism has.

    I think the reason that it is hugely appealing is because core dharma is certain as soon as you start thing looking and experiencing it.


    * What are the strengths and weaknesses of presenting the Buddha’s teaching as analogous to the practices of a medical doctor?

    Delusion is a sickness of knowledge. The ego is the symptom and the symptom makes the sickness worse in a self feeding loop that some doctors call The 12 Niddanyas.



    * How does the fact that the Buddha taught for forty-five years to various kinds of audiences affect the form and content of his teachings?

    To me it clearly shows there is no place in Buddhism for any school, vehicle or doctrine.

    The fact that enlightenment seems to have been so abundant and easy in his time suggests it was seen differently under the Buddha as under Buddhism.


    * What was the connection between intellectual activities and ascetic practices in the Buddha’s awakening and realization of Nibbana?

    I don't really know? by ascetic do you mean in the sanga?


    * How and why would intellectual and meditative practices be causes of awakening?

    Because both are paths to see things as they are, one based on pure reason the other on pure insight, neither are mutually exclusive. Both a complimentary, a fact I think sadly gets overlooked in today's buddhism.

    * In what ways is the Abhidhamma understanding of paticca-samuppada different from the Theravada, Madhyamaka, and Yogacara interpretations?

    I have really tried to undersdtand the Ahibdharma. I dont. I also think it has zero connection with the Buddha.

    Frankly, as a Philosopher, I think the ahibdharma has ruined Buddhism's philosophical heritage.

    I mean really, is there anyone who understands it or believes it? i would love it explained to me.


    * How does mindfulness help one transcend conventional truth and see the ultimate truth?

    I don't see there is any distinction between truth,. that seems life it would break anataman in the systems sense.

    But mindfulness is crucial for seeing emptiness, imperminance, interconectivity and the now and it is also essential for focus on contemplation.

    * How are the ‘‘Three Marks’’ related to one another for their existences


    The first two marks are logically necessary in any changing system of more than two sub systems. You just cant have a universe without annica and anataman.

    Dukka is slightly higher level, it comes in only when you have imperminance and interconnectivity within a finite possibility space. This is hard to get your head around I think, but perhaps can be seen by thinking about this question: "if we had infinite time, resouces, possibility would there be dukka?" I can think of logically possible infinite universes without dukka, the same isnt true of the first two marks.


    But note that dukka doesn't really become suffering at the highest levels of abstrction, ie sentient emmotional karmic beings.



    *How are they related to the Buddha’s teaching on interdependent arising?


    You cannot really understand DO without an understanding of the law of noncontradiction. Maybe you can see it and experince it, but to really make sense of it you need to be sure that there are no contradictions.

    Then you can see that because all things are interconenected (anataman)and all things are in change (anica) it follows that every change must be consistent with the changes around it.

    Imagine all the changes in the universe from any point, they form this consistent whole, this network, (I recall the buddha describes it as like a fisermans net? ref please!).

    So we know that no part of this net can contradict any other part and therfore we know that all change must be consistent too. So if A changes to B then either theire will be a reason for that or it will be random. If there is a reason then that reason must be consistent with the rest of the universe.

    And that reason will also have a reason. And so on back and forwards and with other casual threads through the net in the vast connected frameowrk of change.

    This is the network of dependent causation, seeing it is seeing dharma because we can see it all there, interconnectivity, impermanence and emptiness, and at higher levels of abstraction, suffering and ignorance and craving.... they all fit into the causal network.


    * What specific philosophical problems are created by the etymology of ‘‘Nibbana?’’

    I think Nibanna means extingishing the idea that there is more to life than this.

    The candle in the candle flame metaphore, being snuffed out.


    * Why do you think the Buddha refused to answer questions about Nibbana?

    I dont want to disucss that here:)
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited April 2010
    The whole point of the Buddha is not the historical man, Shakamuni, who taught. Shakamuni shows the way, the profound methods to awaken to Buddhahood in this very life. The only time travel I'm interested in is now.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited April 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »
    Howdy,

    If time travel were possible that means you could travel back in time and teach one of your previous lives The Middle Way all the way to enlightenment and thus making that karmic being enlightened and fully escaped from samsara in which case your karmic being would not have been able to go back to teach dharma in the first place, ergo, time travel is not possible.

    I rest my case:cool:

    Man, what an awesome idea for a science fiction story.
  • edited April 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    Man, what an awesome idea for a science fiction story.

    Thanks, It was actually told to me via Time Travel Private Message by guess who? You!

    So I guess the credit is yourse:p

    **eats own brain**
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited April 2010
    I look forwards yo your criticism and other peoples attempts to answer your questions:)
    Are you suuuure? Those are too many questions and I'm lazy ;s

    Ok I'll try. :P
    * What effect, if any, does our lack of knowledge about the life of the Buddha have on your understanding of his teachings?
    I kind of agree with you. For me the teachings stand on their own because they are verifiable. The lack of knowledge of precisely what happened in his life (some people even debate whether or not he existed) would matter more if he was some sort of avatar.
    * Which features of the Buddha’s teachings allowed it to flourish in contexts outside of India? Why?
    The sangha was very tolerant to dissident ideas. In fact, Mahayana begun in Theravada monasteries, with some people holding different views than the others. What characterized a schism was not the ideas of a particular group, but the rules they lived by.

    Another thing is that led Buddhism to flourish outside India was rebirth and its connotations. Soon there were monasteries giving titles to rulers as universal monarchs and whatnot, and getting royal favors in return.

    I am sure there are others, but to answer this one has to know how it went from India to other countries and that is some long research.
    * What are the strengths and weaknesses of presenting the Buddha’s teaching as analogous to the practices of a medical doctor?
    We get the ideas from a doctor in a rather dogmatic fashion. We don't discuss pharmacology, we take the pill and will only complain if it doesn't work.Maybe the strength is that it inspires people to test the method. The weakness is that he talked to people in the context of what they were going through, case by case, and it makes a bit harder to fit everything together.
    * How does the fact that the Buddha taught for forty-five years to various kinds of audiences affect the form and content of his teachings?
    The content becomes very broad. The form becomes rather deceiving, because often the context is lost.

    The rest is blahh :P
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Mat,

    You just got off the spaceship and told me to give you this message. You had a long flowing grey beard. The message to give is that you should invest all your money in aluminum!

    Ok thats all.

    Jeffrey
  • edited April 2010
    I kind of agree with you. For me the teachings stand on their own because they are verifiable.

    Yep:) Totalah

    The lack of knowledge of precisely what happened in his life (some people even debate whether or not he existed) would matter more if he was some sort of avatar.

    Yep, he was, after all, just a south asian bronze age prince, if he existed at all. What we do know is that someone discovered dharma and from the the four noble truths and the eightfold path.
    The sangha was very tolerant to dissident ideas. In fact, Mahayana begun in Theravada monasteries, with some people holding different views than the others. What characterized a schism was not the ideas of aparticular group, but the rules they lived by.

    Sure, but your talking about a split that is nearly a millenia after the buddhas time. I think any key changes will have come in the first few "dark" centuries.

    Another thing is that led Buddhism to flourish outside India was rebirth and its connotations. Soon there were monasteries giving titles to rulers as universal monarchs and whatnot, and getting royal favors in return.

    Ahh right. I hadn't thought of that. That needs more thought for sure.
    I am sure there are others, but to answer this one has to know how it went from India to other countries and that is some long research.

    Imagine how it went from north india to sri lanka, even today a nigh on impossible land route.

    Nice chatting:)

    Salome:)

    Mat
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited April 2010
    fivebells wrote: »
    Man, what an awesome idea for a science fiction story.

    Really! Mr. Ridley Scott, please pick up the white courtesy phone!

    :)

    Mtns
  • StaticToyboxStaticToybox Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Personally I choose not to ponder things which are unanswerable.
  • edited April 2010
    Takeahnase wrote: »
    Personally I choose not to ponder things which are unanswerable.

    I spent 2 years pondering time travel paradoxed for a thesis, they are fun things to ponder!

    You know, I think its OK for Buddhists to philosophise more;)
  • edited April 2010
    i just hope time travel doesn't get into the paws of wicked men, women
  • skydancerskydancer Veteran
    edited April 2010
    Most of us time travel every day. We leave the now for memory and fantasy future.
  • edited April 2010
    tyme time is very traversable, in the sense that subjective time can be altered depending on perception and what other variables we throw in. yeah, like daydreaming and a sick nauseous nostalgia, getting fixated on the past and being caught in its mud, moves us out of the enlightened now and alters the ENTIRE experiENce
  • StaticToyboxStaticToybox Veteran
    edited April 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »
    You know, I think its OK for Buddhists to philosophise more;)

    Indeed, but I choose to keep my philosophizing grounded in reality.
  • edited April 2010
    Takeahnase wrote: »
    Indeed, but I choose to keep my philosophizing grounded in reality.

    Many much smarter people than you and I think time travel is a very real possibility (I don't).

    So what Buddhist philosophising are you into?

    Hakuna Matata,

    Mat
  • LesCLesC Bermuda Veteran
    edited April 2010
    MatSalted wrote: »
    Howdy,

    If time travel were possible that means you could travel back in time and teach one of your previous lives The Middle Way all the way to enlightenment and thus making that karmic being enlightened and fully escaped from samsara in which case your karmic being would not have been able to go back to teach dharma in the first place, ergo, time travel is not possible.

    I rest my case:cool:

    Well you got almost right... it should have been "ergo, Buddhism is not possible"!!! Hahahahaha!!! :lol:
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited April 2010
    The Buddha is just a regular shlump from the year 2372, when time travel is common. It turns out that genetically modified grain contains special elusive compounds that have a cumulative effect on the brain. This effect reached a critical point in the year 2121, initiating a phase shift in human consciousness, and the spontaneous mass enlightenment of everyone. Since everyone became enlightened at the same time, no one became enlightened. It's a strange time. The Buddha was sent back to the past as punishment for unpaid parking tickets. Don't ask how I know this.
  • LesCLesC Bermuda Veteran
    edited April 2010
    We should have some sort of award system on this forum, I would nominate Richard.

    :)
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    edited April 2010
    LesC wrote: »
    We should have some sort of award system on this forum, I would nominate Richard.

    :)

    I concur :) I just LOL'd at my desk and now everyone thinks I'm a total weirdo (as opposed to a quasi-weirdo :P)
  • edited April 2010
    The Buddha is just a regular shlump from the year 2372, when time travel is common. It turns out that genetically modified grain contains special elusive compounds that have a cumulative effect on the brain. This effect reached a critical point in the year 2121, initiating a phase shift in human consciousness, and the spontaneous mass enlightenment of everyone. Since everyone became enlightened at the same time, no one became enlightened. It's a strange time. The Buddha was sent back to the past as punishment for unpaid parking tickets. Don't ask how I know this.

    Tell me it aint so!;)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited April 2010
    If buddha has a psychiatrist he can get off those tickets. I got off a series of 7 parking tickets due to mental illness. I thought the tickets were issued to convert me to christianity. Little did I know the nepharious scope of 'the parking problem'.

    Can I get a witness? Just kidding I know I have ventured into playland aka 'I'm on my own'
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