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Nothing But A Buddhist Mind
ajani_mgo
Veteran
OK this isn't exactly a problem, but I just want to see what do you all think of it.
I chant no sutras, pray no Buddhas, visit no temples, join no sanghas etc etc. but all I have is a very Buddhist mind... And I take teachings from all schools and don't really consider myself as part of any school, not even catergorize myself as Mahayanese or Theravedin.
Any comments about this? Do I need to do more?
I chant no sutras, pray no Buddhas, visit no temples, join no sanghas etc etc. but all I have is a very Buddhist mind... And I take teachings from all schools and don't really consider myself as part of any school, not even catergorize myself as Mahayanese or Theravedin.
Any comments about this? Do I need to do more?
0
Comments
Your question reveals the answer you seek.
I don't know, but we're in the same boat either way
If you would like to know what I think, I believe that besides reading the teachings of the Buddha you also need a consistent meditation practice to really gain from the path itself. Meditation is where the true fruits of the path develop, where real insight will arise.
You don't need to pray to the Buddha because he was not a God. He was a profound teacher of the cessation of suffering. (Venerating him is not the same as worshipping him by the way.)
You also do not need to chant the Suttas/Sutras. The are chanted by the Sangha because that is how they are remembered and kept for all generations to learn from. They were written down only because it was feared they would be lost otherwise due to wars, persecution, and lessened memories. (The Sangha was almost completely wiped out at one time.) Reading them is enough to gain their wisdom which adds to your meditation practice.
There is no requirement to visit a temple, however, it is an advisable thing to do. Without lay support the Sangha of monks would eventually vanish along with the true Dhamma. They are also good places to go to learn meditation, go on retreats, ask questions, and enjoy the tranquility of a monastic setting.
Last but not least, you do not need a label such as "Theravadin", "Mahayana", or even "Buddhist". It's not what you call yourself that matters, it's how you live your life.
Jason
Palzang
Could you clarify this for me?
So, I need to take refuge in the Buddha? How does one do that exactly? I'm taking refuge in something that has been dead for 2500 years?
I need to take refuge in the Dharma. I can understand this. In fact, I believe that these first two items are the same thing. By taking refuge in Buddha - you are accepting his teachings to guide you towards "awakening".
Lastly, I need to have a sangha or community of practitioners? What if I can't? What if there isn't an community near me? What if the don't believe the same Buddhism I do?
Are you saying that if a person doesn't follow these 3 precepts - they're SOL?
-bf
You take refuge in the Buddha - big respect for all he went through, learnt, and passed on... he can do it, we can do it too... the guy leads by example.
You take refuge in the Dharma - Big respect then to his teachings, the sutra, the doctrine, the eightfold path, five precepts and the whole bundle....
You take refuge in the Sangha... Big respect then to those who become ordained monks and nuns, the lamas, the Yogis, the Sufis... anyone who devotes themselves to exclusively Living The path, to the exclusion of attachments and distractions....
BIG PICTURE:
You take refuge in Your Fellow Man, The person who will teach you much through your reactions to his actions... be it the Taxman, the petrol Company or the Electricity Board....
You take refuge in Everything Life teaches you, through books, TV, scriptures of other faiths, what you read, hear and perceive: accept or reject, either way, it's a revelation...
You take refuge in the Sangha... people in Africa, iraq, Israel, America the UK, France Europe.... Take all these identities away, they got two eyes, two ears two arms legs and a mind - just like you....
LITTLE PICTURE:
You take refuge in....YOU. Everything you think, say & do is a way you manifest.... you are your greatest pupil/Teacher....
You take refuge in that which you know to be true within yourself.... You 'Walk the Talk'
and finally...
You take refuge in your family, friends & neighbours This is your very own microscopic sangha. This is where you live and these are the people you live with.
How's that?
by Bhikkhu Bodhi
The first step in entering the Buddhist path is going for refuge to the Triple Gem, and the first of the three gems that we approach as refuge is the Buddha, the Enlightened One. Because the act of going for refuge to the Buddha marks the beginning of a new chapter in our life, it is worth our while to repeatedly pause and reflect upon the significance of this momentous step. Too often we are prone to take our first steps for granted. Yet it is only if we review these steps from time to time in a deepening awareness of their implications that we can be sure the following steps we take will bring us closer to our desired destination.
The going for refuge to the Buddha is not a single action which occurs only once and is then completed with absolute finality. It is, or should be, a continually evolving process which matures in tandem with our practice and understanding of the Dhamma. To go for refuge does not imply that at the outset we already possess a clear grasp of the dangers that make a refuge necessary or of the goal towards which we aspire. Comprehension of these matters grows gradually over time. But to the extent that we have actually gone for refuge with sincere intent, we should make an earnest effort to sharpen and deepen our understanding of the objects to which we have turned as the basis for our deliverance.
In going for refuge to the Buddha it is most essential at the outset to clarify our conception of what a Buddha is and how he functions as a refuge. If such clarification is lacking, our sense of refuge can easily become tainted by erroneous views. We may ascribe to the Buddha a status he never claimed for himself, as when we regard him as the incarnation of a god, as the emanation of the Absolute, or as a personal savior. On the other hand, we may detract from the exalted status to which the Buddha is properly entitled, as when we regard him simply as a benevolent sage, as an unusually astute Asiatic philosopher, or as a genius of meditative technology.
A correct view of the Buddha's nature would see him in terms of the title he assigned to himself: as a Fully Self-Enlightened One (samma sambuddha). He is self-enlightened because he has awakened to the essential truths of existence entirely on his own, without a teacher or guide. He is fully enlightened because he has comprehended these truths completely, in all their ramifications and implications. And as a Buddha he has not only fathomed these truths himself, but has also taught them to the world so that others may awaken from the long sleep of ignorance and attain the fruits of liberation.
Taking refuge in the Buddha is an act anchored in a particular historical individual: the recluse Gotama, the scion of the Sakyan clan, who lived and taught in the Ganges valley in the fifth century B.C. When we take refuge in the Buddha, we rely upon this historical individual and the body of instruction that stems from him. It is important to stress this point in view of the fashionable notion that taking refuge in the Buddha means that we take refuge in "the Buddha-mind within ourselves" or in "the universal principle of enlightenment." Such ideas, allowed to go unchecked, can lead to the belief that anything we contrive in the flights of our imagination can qualify as true Dhamma. To the contrary, the Buddhist tradition insists that when we go for refuge to the Buddha, we place ourselves under the guidance of one who is distinctly different from ourselves, one who has scaled heights that we have barely begun to glimpse.
But when we rely upon the recluse Gotama as our refuge, we do not apprehend him merely as a particular individual, a wise and sensible sage. We apprehend him rather as a Buddha. It is his Buddhahood -- his possession of the full range of excellent qualities that come with perfect enlightenment -- that makes the recluse Gotama a refuge. In any cosmic epoch, a Buddha is that being who first breaks through the dark mass of ignorance encompassing the world and rediscovers the lost path to Nibbana, the cessation of suffering. He is the pioneer, the trailblazer, who discovers the path and proclaims the path so that others, by following his tracks, may extinguish their ignorance, arrive at true wisdom, and break the fetters that tie them to the round of repeated birth and death.
For the refuge in the Buddha to be genuine, it must be accompanied by a commitment to the Buddha as an incomparable teacher, as unexcelled and unsurpassed. Strictly speaking, the historical Buddha is not unique since there have been earlier Fully Enlightened Ones who have arisen in past epochs and there will be others who will arise in future epochs as well. But in any one world system it is impossible for a second Buddha to arise while the teaching of another Buddha is still extant, and thus in terms of human history we are justified in regarding the Buddha as a unique teacher, unequalled by any other spiritual teacher known to humanity. It is this readiness to recognize the Buddha as "the unsurpassed trainer of persons to be tamed, the teacher of gods and humans" that is the hallmark of an authentic act of taking refuge in the Buddha.
The Buddha serves as a refuge by teaching the Dhamma. The actual and final refuge, embedded within the Dhamma as refuge, is Nibbana, "the deathless element free from clinging, the sorrowless state that is void of stain" (Itiv. 51). The Dhamma as refuge comprises the final goal, the path that leads to that goal, and the body of teachings that explain the practice of the path. The Buddha as refuge has no capacity to grant us liberation by an act of will. He proclaims the path to be traveled and the principles to be understood. The actual work of walking the path is then left to us, his disciples.
The proper response to the Buddha as refuge is trust and confidence. Trust is required because the doctrine taught by the Buddha runs counter to our innate understanding of ourselves and our natural orientation towards the world. To accept this teaching thus tends to arouse an inner resistance, even to provoke a rebellion against the changes it requires us to make in the way we lead our lives. But when we place trust in the Buddha we open ourselves to his guidance. By going to him for refuge we show that we are prepared to recognize that our inherent tendencies to self-affirmation and grasping are in truth the cause of our suffering. And we are ready to accept his counsel that to become free from suffering, these tendencies must be controlled and eliminated.
Confidence in the Buddha as our refuge is initially awakened when we contemplate his sublime virtues and his excellent teaching. It grows through our undertaking of the training. At first our confidence in the Buddha may be hesitant, punctured by doubts and perplexity. But as we apply ourselves to the practice of his path, we find that our defilements gradually lessen, that wholesome qualities increase, and with this comes a growing sense of freedom, peace and joy. This experience confirms our initial trust, disposing us to advance a few steps further. When at last we see the truth of the Dhamma for ourselves, the refuge in the Buddha becomes inviolable. Confidence then becomes conviction, the conviction that the Blessed One is "the speaker, the proclaimer, the bringer of the good, the giver of the Deathless, the lord of the Dhamma, the Tathagata."
Buddhist Publication Society Newsletter cover essay #21 (Spring 1992)
Copyright © 1992 Buddhist Publication Society
For free distribution only
I guess one could look at it that way. I guess, with me, the only thing I can see about taking refuge in The Buddha is that he did go through this - so we know it's possible.
Separating Buddha from his teachings seems like splitting hairs because the teachings "are" Buddha. It's what he shared with us regarding his "awakening".
As for taking refuge in the sangha - that's even more difficult. Taking refuge in "some people" that are all seeking like myself on the internet - that doesn't seem (to me) like a true sangha. I don't know of a place that has monks/nuns/ordained priests that could be considered a "sangha". Is reading a book written by nuns, priests, or monks actually being a part of a sangha?
Lastly, for the microcosm of a family, I think it's pretty self evident that, at least for Westerners, taking refuge in a family or friends that are not Buddhists - really plays ~against~ finding refuge because it's not something they understand or believe.
That is still ultimately my question that I don't believe has been answered...
If you cannot find all of Buddha's teachings - if you cannot find a sangha to be a part of - there is no hope of enlightenment?
While, by following all of the concepts, I think it makes finding enlightenment easier, I can't believe it's the end all be all.
How did Buddha find enlightenment when he didn't have a buddha's teachings or the support of a sangha?
-bf
When you take refuge in the Buddha, on one level you are taking refuge in the fact that a human being just like you was able to obtain enlightenment and that the Buddhanature he possessed is exactly the same Buddhanature that you possess. This gives us the hope that the potential for enlightenment also resides within us.
On a deeper level, when we take refuge in the Buddha we are saying that we recognize that there is a difference between ordinary mind and enlightened mind. Ordinary mind sees the world through the delusions, ego-clinging, habitual tendencies and conditioned responses that we all have and that cause us immense suffering through this and every life. Enlightened mind is mind that has cleansed itself of delusion and can therefore see things clearly. It is similar to the drunk who realizes that his/her perceptions of the world are clouded by alcoholism, so the likelihood of the alcoholic being able to beat the alcoholism by himself/herself is highly unlikely. Therefore the alcoholic puts his/her trust in one, the higher power in AA terms, who does see clearly and can lead the alcoholic out of their addiction. In the same way we accept the enlightened mind of Buddha as the guide to lead us out of our suffering and delusion and into the state of bliss that is enlightenment.
Taking refuge in the Dharma then is taking refuge in what the Buddha taught as the method to rid ourselves of the delusions and habitual tendencies that are the root cause of our suffering. We no longer take refuge in samsara, in the ordinary world, because that has never and never will produce an end to suffering. Instead we take refuge in the teachings that will produce the result.
Taking refuge in the Sangha means that we acknowledge that we are unable to do this by ourselves, so we depend on the community of practitioners for support on the path and in turn offer our support to them on their path. It's not about applying a litmus test to make sure everybody believes the same dogma. Rather it is about developing loving kindness, compassion and patience for our fellow man. Without this compassion for others, we'll never accomplish anything on the path.
I'm not saying you're SOL (shucks out of luck?) if you don't have all these or don't want all these. All I'm saying is that this is what it takes to follow the path of the Buddha. Without them, you're basically creating your own religion, and we all know the likely result of that! That's not to say that it's impossible for someone to work out their own enlightenment. There are examples of pratyekabuddhas (those who have achieved the state of non-returner on their own), but they're few and far between and in these degenerate times, the chances are less than slim. Far more likely is that if you follow your own path you will only succeed in increasing your delusion and ego-clinging rather than achieving any kind of insight or peace. It's a peculiarly Western mind set that we think we don't need help, that we can do it on our own. It's also a particularly dangerous state of mind because it is based on pride, which is poison on the spiritual path. As long as we take refuge in our egos, we will continue to take rebirth in cyclic existence and experience suffering. It's only when we can set our egos aside and take refuge in this higher power that we have the possibility of getting off the wheel forever.
Palzang
Close, my friend. Close
Thanks for the post.
It's just kind of disheartening to hear that without the benefit of having all three of the things (the three Jewels) that a person is almost certainly doomed to fail.
Not to insult this site - but for the most part (if I understand most people's involvement) everyone here is like me - except for yourself. You are a monk and you do participate in this site so we gain the benefit of your knowledge and experience (and for that, I thank you).
Unfortunatley, (from what you said) when you (or another nun or monk) doesn't participate in this medium - we basically just have another internet forum with people giving their own ~opinions~.
I believed in Christanity that one could find the truth on their own. You had the knowledge of what Christ did and his teachings. There was no requirement that you had to be part of a "group". It was a good thing if you could find like-minded people to fellowship with - but it wasn't a requirement.
I guess the good thing is that I'm truly not seeking to become enlightened or awake. I didn't start Buddhism with that being my end-all-be-all goal. I honestly feel that at this time, I'm so ignorant, that an "awakening" is beyond me. So, I strive to do what I can and learn what I can.
Thanks for the post. You said a lot of things that give me a lot to meditate on. You made a great point about how some cultures believe there are many things that they can do all by themselves.
Fede,
That's what I was thinking until I read Palzang's post.
Now I'm thinking that what works for me may not or is probably not the best thing to do. Because what I think may be best for me is really not the best thing for me based upon pre-conceived notions or delusions I may have.
One thing that would help me is if anyone has any links to Buddha's teachings that are not 2,200 years old. Having some translations of his teachings/lessons/parables that a 21st Century Man (c'mon Ray Davies!) could understand would be very helpful. Pali Canons, at times, are very cryptic to me and leave me sitting here thinking..., "Wtf?"
-bf
When all else fails, we're still good for a laff, tho'....!!
I wasn't dissing the group. I hope you know that much about me by now...
I agree with the posts of Elohim - and other that post references and provide their insight.
I just have a hard time with the Pali Canons sometimes - I get a widdo sweepy weading dem sometimes...
-bf
"Snoozing over the sutras" will, I am sure, do more harm than good! Indeed, I think that we can spend so much of our time bent over books and scrolls that our backs are so twisted that all we can see is the ground, and never see the stars.
With all deep respect to Palzang-la, he is giving you what must be seen as the 'orthodox' view of Refuge. And I believe that it is important that we examine and understand what it is saying and why. For myself, I have only reverence for traditional Refuge taking. It is, however, quite a stretch to go from there to making it a sine qua non of enlightenment. It is too close to the exclusivity of 'salvation' preached by most religious groups.
For some of us, Buddhism is about as far from 'religion' as geometry is from cookery. Without wishing to be offensive to any tradition, ceremony, rite and ritual are useful 'bolt-ons' in certain cases. For example, in India, Buddhists are deemed to be casteless, which makes it attractive to the harijans. This makes some kind of 'membership' ceremony very useful.
But what, I wonder, is the point of such a stipulation in a Western context?
No. For me, the Triple Jewel provide a meditation refuge and a daily exercise. Day-by-day, they reveal themselves more and more to me. But I must take issue with any particular stipulation which fails to recognise that the Dharma is not a religious dogma. This is not "creating our own religion" because it leaves to each one to confront the challenge of the Triple Jewel as a reality in daily life and because, as I shall continue to maintain, the Dharma is not religion, despite Buddhism having taken on some religious aspects.
As Fede will remind us: we are not to take anyone else's word for it, Michael. Of all of us, you are most likely to test each step of the Way. Carry on! And, as the old saying has it, "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him."
Well Derh!! Why do you think I'm the Village idiot - ?!? :crazy:
Count on me for the simplistic view every time... I won't ever say it's the right one, just MY one - !!
I know you weren't dissin'... but every viewpoint is fun to take in... or not...!! All grist to the mill!! :thumbsup:
The nice thing about Buddhism is that you start where you're at. If you're not particularly interested in enlightenment when you start, or you don't feel up to compassion, that's fine. You start where you are and move on. But the point is that Buddhism is about change. If you're not willing to work on yourself and at least try to change, then there's not much point. You'd be better off finding a nice hobby!
Palzang
Please understand that I am not dismissing the Threefold Jewel. It is an integral part of my daily practice, and a constant in a shifting and troubled world. My only concern is the notion of some form of Refuge ceremonial as 'initiation rite'.
Because of the 'cult of personality' which bedevils modern Christianity and secular life, I can quite understand Michael's discomfort at the idea of taking refuge in an historical figure. And it is my own perception of Refuge in the Buddha evokes, of course, reverence for the Historical Buddha and, beyond that, for the BuddhaNature.
In addition, many Western Buddhists, in non-Buddhist environments, and finding the whole picture of the Sangha alien, may need to envision the Noble Sangha as wider than the community of the ordained. In my (admittedly poor and in English) studies of the Uttaratantra Ashastra, it seems to me that we are shown a Sangha of fruition, with the qualities of knowledge and liberation (rig and drol). I have found that recognising my refuge is this Sangha, shown to me by my teacher, has the effect of assuaging any sense of loneliness or futility.
In Christianity, there is a requirement to worship Christ or God - however you want to look at it - because this entity requires it.
In Buddhism - there is no deity. Did Siddartha claim he was a god? From what I've read - he only said he was, "Awake".
Did Siddartha claim that his mother had a dream about a white elephant that impregnated her? With a Boddhisotva? That he spoke with gods about whether or not he should share his knowlege? Did Siddartha say these things? Or was it possibly other people who probably never knew Siddartha (and might even be labeled fanatics?) make these statements?
It seems like this mentality of myth, superstition and hearsay could go on forever by people that wish to create some sort of deity.
When Buddha was asked if he was a God - he said, "No."
Did Buddha say, "Take refuge in me." - I don't think so (if someone has some that says otherwise, I'd really, really like to see it). Did people centuries down the road come up with these precepts? Probably. In the hopes of expanding and expounding on the Buddha's teachings? Probably.
If Buddha was a man - that man is long dead and his bones turned to dust. There is nothing to really take refuge in except dust. Dust that is 2,500 years old.
But, his teachings are as new today as they were then. We see this on a daily basis as more and more people continue coming to Buddhism. It's the teachings that continue to stir and awaken more and more people daily.
So - I'm thankful Siddartha reached his "awakening". I'm thankful that, once he became Buddha - he shared his ideas, thoughts and teachings with the world. We can be glad and thankful that a mere mortal came to this realization. We can have hope of attaining enlightenment - because Siddartha did it.
If there is a statement where Buddha said, "Take refuge in me." - I really, really want to see it.
Until then, I'm going to have to take some time to figure this one out. I'm also going to have to come to terms with the fact that since I have no sangha - no monk to call master - no internal calling to become a monk (or nun!) - how I'm going to deal with this as a lay person.
-bf
Bullshit.
Taking refuge in the Triple Gem might be all of those things, but if Siddharta Gauthama were alive today - and not just a pile of bones and dust, as BF correctly states - he'd be laughing his designer Gucci sandals off!! (Well, why not? If you're going to be walking everywhere, good footwear is essential - !) He was called the Buddha because he'd woken up. Woken up to the illusory, temporary transient nature of all things. Just like this discussion.
Taking refuge just means walking the talk. Doing, not saying.
I'm going on a diet, and I'm going to lose thirty pounds.
That's me taking refuge in the Atkins.
I'm going to Tibet and I'm going to climb Mount Everest.
That's me taking refuge in Insanity.
I'm going to see what this dude is about and try to be like him. I'm going to adhere to the suggestions he makes, and be good to my neighbour.
That's me taking refuge in the Triple Gem.
It's really very simple. Why make it so complicated - ??
Anyway when I first started out, I wanted enlightenment. But now, I think my life rocks, and that I'm taking a humanistic view on life. This life isn't full of suffering, but it's full of joy, only that you never bothered to realize, so enlightenment is not so important for me.
"Can one find enlightenment or awakening without take refuge in the 3 Jewels?"
We can all take refuge in Buddha. Whatever that means. I'm just assuming that it's recognizing his importance and revelation to the world. But, if there is something more, I'm missing it.
We take refuge in the Dharma - his teachings. No brainer - I think everyone gets this one.
Taking refuge in the Sangha. How does one do that if there is no "sangha" for this person to participate in. And it doesn't seem like it's just a "group" of people that are all seeking. Because as it's been pointed out here - and unenlightened or unknowledgable person leading another unknowing person is like the blind leading the blind.
So - taking it from people much more learn-ed that any of us here - if we don't have a sangha with monks or nuns helping to lead us - where does that leave us?
I don't agree with these statements because I believe a seeker can still continue seeking and learning - albeit much more slowly than having a teacher or instructor. But on the flip side, since I am so ignorant - I might just be talking out my rear-end.
-bf
-bf
Our community is the greatest Sangha we have. It teaches us Love, Patience, Tolerance, Understanding, and whilst I understand your analogy of the Blind leading the Blind, it doesn't apply in this case, because you are making efforts to open your eyes.... simply because these people are not qualified or recognised, it doesn't mean you can't learn from them? Unconditional Love and Universal Compassion are hard to practise no matter who's infront of the blackboard....
Are you preaching to the choir again?
-bf
All together now....
"KUMBAYAH MAH LORD, KUMBAYAH....!!"
Because the Dharma tells me so."
ROTFLMAO!!
From a tantric point of view, all beings are deities who are teaching you constantly. All we have to do is open our ears to hear the teaching (cf. Milarepa).
And Simon, the words to the song are "Buddha loves me, this I know, for the SUTRAS tell me so!" Try to get it right next time, willya?
Palzang
Nuthin' but a Buddhist Mind, huh? When in doubt, plagiarise....!!