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Meditation Questions
I usually would ask this sort of question at e-sangha, but it seems to be down. I realize it would be more appropriate to ask of an instructor or teacher, but I don't have one. I've been meditating several hours a day (between 3 and 5) for about a year, which is when I began practicing. Since my only source is books/texts/the internet, I'm not always sure what to expect.
Anyways, one of my major focuses thus far has been 'breathing meditation', as discussed in numerous books on buddhism and meditation. Basically I sit or recline in a relaxing position, close my eyes, and breathe. When I notice thoughts, I try and bring them back to the breathing. At first I counted on the in breath and then exhaled, now I just try to focus on the breathing.
Anyways, my problem is this. I'm not sure if its good or bad, or what to expect or not expect, since none of the books or instructions I have access to mention it.
After meditating in this fashion for awhile, I start to...zone out is the best I can put it. Separate from the monkey-mind taking hold, its hard to describe and I don't know what to make of it. Sometimes when I zone out I end up falling asleep, other times I just come right out of it then go back to meditating.
A few times, and this is what I'm asking about...I'll dream. And its wierd because I usually only dream when I'm asleep, but these are rather like dreams. Let me describe a typical such experience.
Yesterday when meditating in my chair I opened my eyes to look at the bright window on the other side of the room. In the way was a very large mosquito, which I could barely see because of the light. Startled, I opened my eyes.....
And realized that my eyes had in fact been closed, and that I had slipped into a dream. Where I was meditating.
Its hard to describe and I'm not sure what to make of it. Am I doing something wrong? How can I keep from falling asleep when meditating? Could someone give some input or advice here?
Its rather hard because I enjoy meditation more then anything else, yet there are really no local resources for me to turn too, so I'm not sure if I'm doing things right or wrong.
Anyways, one of my major focuses thus far has been 'breathing meditation', as discussed in numerous books on buddhism and meditation. Basically I sit or recline in a relaxing position, close my eyes, and breathe. When I notice thoughts, I try and bring them back to the breathing. At first I counted on the in breath and then exhaled, now I just try to focus on the breathing.
Anyways, my problem is this. I'm not sure if its good or bad, or what to expect or not expect, since none of the books or instructions I have access to mention it.
After meditating in this fashion for awhile, I start to...zone out is the best I can put it. Separate from the monkey-mind taking hold, its hard to describe and I don't know what to make of it. Sometimes when I zone out I end up falling asleep, other times I just come right out of it then go back to meditating.
A few times, and this is what I'm asking about...I'll dream. And its wierd because I usually only dream when I'm asleep, but these are rather like dreams. Let me describe a typical such experience.
Yesterday when meditating in my chair I opened my eyes to look at the bright window on the other side of the room. In the way was a very large mosquito, which I could barely see because of the light. Startled, I opened my eyes.....
And realized that my eyes had in fact been closed, and that I had slipped into a dream. Where I was meditating.
Its hard to describe and I'm not sure what to make of it. Am I doing something wrong? How can I keep from falling asleep when meditating? Could someone give some input or advice here?
Its rather hard because I enjoy meditation more then anything else, yet there are really no local resources for me to turn too, so I'm not sure if I'm doing things right or wrong.
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Comments
If one is prone, then sleep is a natural body response. If you are combining this with meditating in a darkened room, then your brain is certain to be producing melatonin while resting as well, which we know to cause vivid dreaming.
If you are sitting that much, you really need to talk to a teacher. It doesn't have to be face to face. There are people who will consult with you online.
Regarding finding a teacher, fivebells...would you have any advice over how I would go about finding one?
I must admit, I have never done exactly this, but I did meet my teacher by cold-emailing him with practice questions, and I have considered consulting with him this way. (I meet him in person at retreats approximately once or twice a year. If you're serious, you don't need much teacher contact, but when you need it, you need it.
Reclining is not advisable. Sitting upright is advisable. Even if sitting in a chair (which is fine), one sits only on its base and not against the back of the chair.
This is the hindrance of sloth & torpor. The zoning out is often called 'sinking mind'. If this occurs, try moving one's awareness to the body posture & keeping it upright, to stay awake.
Whilst one part of the mind stays with & in its sinking concentration (until it clarifies), another part of the mind keeps vigilant on the hands, arms, shoulders & back keeping the body upright.
These are symptoms of sinking mind. Sometimes there are mental pictures. Indeed, they are like short dreams; flashes.
This is just the mind purifying itself. Be unconcerned and try to maintain wakefulness (by being aware of the mind, its quality & the body posture).
As advised, this is sloth & torpor, a hindrance that arises from meditation on breathing. But this hindrance is (positively) also a sign of calmness or tranquility developing.
The way to overcome it is to endure it. Be patient, accepting & as watchful as possible with it (broadening awareness on it, mind & body posture).
A more refined way to overcome it is to not focus so acutely on the breathing. Instead, sit in a more open way, with a more open & silent mind.
Instead of pushing the mind onto the breathing, just try to sit with mind open, aware, still and natural. Try letting the breathing come to the mind rather than taking the mind to the breathing.
Whilst this is a subtle practise, dependant on our readiness, it can overcome sloth & torpor.
best wishes
DD
You have received some appropriate advice here from Texas H and myself.
But meditating with a group can be helpful (plus there will often be a 'teacher' with a group if you need to ask a few questions).
Sitting with group has a beneficial energizing quality.
Kind regards
DD
Naturally, teachers can give very helpful & insightful tips, inspiration and even transmission (role model).
I just think beginning meditation practise with a group (rather than alone) is very helpful.
Kind regards
1) Meditate with your eyes open. They will eventually close when you gain enough samadhi
2) Select a time which you are not generally sleepy like the daytime
3) Practice (We are used to fall asleep when we close our eyes. It's natural. As you practice gradually you will be able to remain not falling asleep)
In any case, the above advice regarding the original problem is very helpful. Thank you all very much.
Look into seeing a teacher, take your time to find one.
Sit upright as above said, keep your eyes open or half open, google zazen and eyes that should give you a good model.
Best wishes,
Abu
You can find nearby sangha by looking up dharmnet.org
And never dismiss the importance of a teacher. So often we think we are "onto something", and it is our teacher who gently pulls us back onto the path. Buddhism is so non-Western, this distinctions so subtle, it is not easy to for us to grasp but it is very easy to mis-understand.
How to find a good teacher, a good sangha? I would avoid any that seem to be too money-hungry, for starters. I would look for a teacher who seems to exhibit those qualities I anticipate finding ... gentleness, alertness, tolerance, kindness, calmness, humble, laughs lightly and easily, and very strong qualifications from a specific lineage/school of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism says it can takes years to assess a teacher, so just go with an open state of mind, ready to learn whatever is available to learn. Time will tell.
In Tibetan Buddhism, the first goal of meditation is to learn absolute, undistracted concentration ("calm-abiding", "single-pointed") ... Concentration so complete that thoughts, and outer distractions, no longer intrude. Our teacher does not encourage long meditations, because it is too easy to be learning and reinforcing mistakes in our technique. It is not the length of meditation that counts, but our success in learning to focus and concentrate. Several short meditations are recommended over one long one. The whole goal is to develop a fully-trained mind that is totally under your command and fully alert ... only then is the student ready to move on to the second type of meditation (analytical meditation).
There is one exception to this, and that is if one is pursuing a guru-based tradition (and again...no sangha can be found because they live in the sticks). I do not personally attend to this path despite the many wonderful lessons I've benefited from within these traditions. In my path, there is no "fourth jewel" that is necessary (so to speak), and perhaps it is just my personality, but I find Theravada study to fit me. Teachers come and go in our lives. Sometimes they are even found in busy highway traffic!:mad:
Although falling asleep happens on rare occasions in the sangha, it is much less likely to happen in that setting. One great statement I remember about this was from Chogyam Trungpa, who called group meditation "being in jail" because you are inclined to be "stuck" until the session is over, forcing you into more rigorous practice.