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Non Deity Worship
Following on from previous questions I have spent a number of days looking for an approach to Buddhism that doesn't embrace deity worship. I am just not convinced that deity worship is a reasonable starting point for myself. I have a problem with the catholic church in as much that they themself believe in deities such Saints.
I see no convincing evidence that Buddha himself would of encouraged this practice amongst the people who have choosen to take the same road as himself.
I have to admit to not being fully aware of any Buddhist schools that have a totally pragmatic approuch to this subject. I must also admit to being perplexed as to the need to introduce such worship. I can only assume that as Catholic beliefs were questioned by christian and non christian free thinkers in the west followers of Buddhism must of also questioned this old school approach from the power houses of Tibetan belief system as they came in to contact with other cultures within Asia.
As you see I sem to be fumbling around in the dark, please can someone enlighten me.
I see no convincing evidence that Buddha himself would of encouraged this practice amongst the people who have choosen to take the same road as himself.
I have to admit to not being fully aware of any Buddhist schools that have a totally pragmatic approuch to this subject. I must also admit to being perplexed as to the need to introduce such worship. I can only assume that as Catholic beliefs were questioned by christian and non christian free thinkers in the west followers of Buddhism must of also questioned this old school approach from the power houses of Tibetan belief system as they came in to contact with other cultures within Asia.
As you see I sem to be fumbling around in the dark, please can someone enlighten me.
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Comments
When Buddhism arrived, for example, in China, its encounter with Confucianism and Taoism gave rise to the very particular Buddhism called Ch'an, becoming Zen as it moved into Japan. In Tibet, Padmasambhava struggled with the Bon shamans but Tibetan Buddhism adopted many of their deities as part of the complex system of discursive and imaginative meditation.
This syncretism can appear off-putting to Westerners who believe themselves 'above' what they term superstition. It is, of course, entirely secondary to the Dharma and these stories are only there as aids on the Noble Eighfold Path. It may take a century or two to be clear about what our 21st Century myths really are, but I'm prepared to bet that an examination of whatever has crystallised into Western Buddhism will incorporate them.
For example: we now have an approach to Right Action which encourages social action, a concept almost entirely absent from traditional practice. It rests on the myth of the 'unique value' of the individual and of 'human rights'. These are alien to a highly structured caste system such as obtains in India, China and Japan. They arise from the work of Western philosophers of the Enlightenment. Being considered of primordial importance by Westerners, can we be surprised that Engaged Buddhism arises.
It will be fascinating to see how much else of Western myth will stick to Buddhism.
After all, Western culture has been full of allusions to Greek and Roman myths. We must find some use to them or we wouldn't repeat them so often inspite of the fact that the vast majority of Westerners don't believe those gods ever existed.
Palzang
I say this with respect and an acknowledgement that I know very little about Tibetan Buddism or indeed "Buddism", but if this is the case there must be a strong case to convey this practise by using more user friendly methods, especially for those of us that like to keep it real.
Thanks, I do my best :smilec: Personally, I think Buddhism is great for atheists and agnostics since it gives us a way to live in this world and be guided by a set of moral principles for logical, pragmatic reasons - not just because we're scared of some god we don't believe in. And while some people dislike labels, I do like using the label "Buddhist" because I feel like it helps make me part of a community of people who have similar values. And so long as I don't use it to exclude others, I don't think that's a bad thing. And while there are atheist/agnostic groups, they tend to be rather anti-theist, since the only thing that necessarily ties together atheists/agnostics is that we don't have a belief in any deity, though some of us may still be similar in other ways. And while there are people working hard to ensure the rights of non-believers against the encroachment of theists in the U.S. and other countries, sometimes we need things to be for and not just against.
All I can tell you for my part is that I was a devout and practising Catholic for a huge proportion of my life, but all the way through, I know that at the back of my mind, something just didn't 'gel'....
Buddhism lightly tapped on my head with a 250lb cast-iron sledgehammer about 10 yeears ago, and I decided this was something to which I could adhere solidly, around five years ago.
So for myself, I just conducted a little home-made ceremony, in the privacy of my humble abode, and through taking Refuge in the Triple Gem, devoted myself to following the Buddhist Path. No whistles, no bells, no fireworks or national holiday celebrations.... and now I'm as Buddhist as the Dalai Lama.
Not as well-read, educated, erudite or acomplished, I grant you....but he always maintains he's just a 'simple Monk'. Well, I'm just a 'simple ton'. I accept and understand the Four Noble Truths. I follow the Eightfold Path and Five Precepts. I come onto this site and read, absorb, learn and discuss all sorts of things on a Buddhist level, with folks just like me. We're all different. But really, we're all the same. This is all I need for me. I don't feel I have to study scriptures, sutras and pali texts in any great depth to further my way along the path - though goodness knows, there are those that do, and hallelujah for that! - but for me, simplicity is the key. And I love being here among friends, to contribute in my own small way, because at the end of it all - At the End Of It All - it really doesn't matter.:)
Personally I know the Buddha said you do not have to pray to these gods, and I in culturally-colourful Singapore have heard many stories about such stuff. Why! Even our monks here conduct rites to appease these gods! Well I don't follow what these monks say for sure, not that I'm trying to pick on anyone, but none of them have been enlightened at all! They are wiser than me, wiser than anything, for sure, but definitely they have not realized everything.
They claim if you don't worship, the gods punish and this and that. I'm tired of all these, I just push everything to karma instead of pushing all to my lack of worship, really.
So, conclusion, don't give a damn.