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Questions for mormons anyone?
shanyin
Novice YoginSault Ontario Veteran
Hello; I have been lightly studying Mormonism and Jesus Christ and the Mormon philosophy etc. and I have been meeting Mormons almost weekly to talk about the religion.
Is there any questions anyone of you nice people would have as a Buddhist to ask these nice people I have been meeting (Latter-Day Saints Missionaries). Or the question can be simply about Mormonism and nothing to do with Buddhism or Buddhist philosophies you know what I mean.
I'd like to say - mabye just because I'm in the mood. - (ummm I spelled mabye like this and it says it's spelled wrong.. sup wit dat??) anyways back to the point.
I really see my "interfaith" as not an issue but I understand there may be philisophical differences but I do not even think it matters. Of course there is a whole thread dedicated to this here. But I would invite you to challenge this and if you have questions of this nature please use them. I may ask it to the Mormons and will certainly post they're answer on the thread.
The missionaries I have been seeing have alot of respect for Buddha and what he had to say and they believe that every religion has truth.
One good point someone made was the Buddha said no one can save another. Not only did he say it but I believe it rings true. The counter-argument made sense that Jesus also taught people to walk the 'narrow path'.
OK I SPELLED LIKE 3 WORDS CORRECTLY AND IT UNDERLINED THEM. WHAT COUNTRY AM I IN? haha.
Really looking forward to hearing questions.
ANYTHING PEOPLE!.
Is there any questions anyone of you nice people would have as a Buddhist to ask these nice people I have been meeting (Latter-Day Saints Missionaries). Or the question can be simply about Mormonism and nothing to do with Buddhism or Buddhist philosophies you know what I mean.
I'd like to say - mabye just because I'm in the mood. - (ummm I spelled mabye like this and it says it's spelled wrong.. sup wit dat??) anyways back to the point.
I really see my "interfaith" as not an issue but I understand there may be philisophical differences but I do not even think it matters. Of course there is a whole thread dedicated to this here. But I would invite you to challenge this and if you have questions of this nature please use them. I may ask it to the Mormons and will certainly post they're answer on the thread.
The missionaries I have been seeing have alot of respect for Buddha and what he had to say and they believe that every religion has truth.
One good point someone made was the Buddha said no one can save another. Not only did he say it but I believe it rings true. The counter-argument made sense that Jesus also taught people to walk the 'narrow path'.
OK I SPELLED LIKE 3 WORDS CORRECTLY AND IT UNDERLINED THEM. WHAT COUNTRY AM I IN? haha.
Really looking forward to hearing questions.
ANYTHING PEOPLE!.
0
Comments
I can't think of anything I'd want to ask themn that could possibly interest me.
Having practised Christianity for over 35 -40 years, I'm really quite happy with what I know, and am not curious in any way to gain anything further.
but thanks, anyway.
(Oh, ok, one question:
Have the Osmonds had their teeth capped, or do they really all have larger-than-life natural grins?
A question worth answering!!
Maybe is spelled maybe, not mabye. That's what sup wit dat.
hehe
If you could explain the contradiction I might ask them about it.
OK, I'll try my best. Laying aside the fact that Satan originally appears in the Book of Job (part of the Old Testament that has its origins in the Hebrew Bible) as a servant of God who basically acts as a divine prosecutor, and assuming that these two entities literally exist more or less as how they are presented within Christianity as a whole, lets look at the the relationship between God and Satan from a more critical standpoint.
If, as Genesis asserts, God created all things, God also created evil in the act of creating everything, including Satan; in fact, at one point God even proclaims, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]" (Isa 45:7, KJV). God is also said to be omniscient, to have knowledge of all things, so God should have been well aware of the consequences of creating Satan regardless of which story of Satan's creation and fall is true (of which there are many). So logically speaking:
A. God created everything — including Satan — purposefully, and brought evil, pain and suffering into the world
B. God made a mistake in creating Satan, not knowing that he would eventually stage an epic rebellion
C. God isn't the true God or creator, but a lesser being — as per Gnosticism — who created the "material" world
D. There's no such thing as God or Satan, i.e., these aren't existent beings, merely mythological figures
A suggests that God isn't wholly good if God knowingly introduced evil, pain and suffering into the world. And while people often defend God by suggesting that we simply don’t understand his divine plan — that these blights are either Satan's (or, as some believe, Eve's) fault or that they aren't blights at all but serve some divine, unknown purpose — this line of reasoning seems to be the equivalent of defending a father's abuse of his child out of "love." From this perspective, Satan is more of an anti-hero for rebelling and rejecting God than a villain.
(As a side note, this seems to be one of the oldest arguments against a belief in God. The skeptic philosopher Aenesidemus, for example, ended his Arguments Against Belief in a God with the conclusion that, "Those who affirm positively that God exists cannot avoid falling into an impiety. For if they say that God controls everything, they make Him the author of evil things; if, on the other hand, they say that He controls some things only, or that He controls nothing, they are compelled to make God either grudging or impotent, and to do that is quite obviously an impiety.")
B suggests that God isn’t perfect, and therefore, fallible. Satan himself accuses God of this flaw in certain accounts of his fall. In this case, Satan appears to be the more truthful of the two, and again, not a villain.
C suggest a few tantalizing but more complicated scenarios, one of which being that Satan, also known as Lucifer (which itself is most likely a misunderstanding of Isaiah 14:12), is truly the bringer of [the] light [of knowledge] (assuming, of course, that he's the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempts Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), while God is responsible for the creation of an inherently flawed, material world. It's also interesting to note God's exclamation in Genesis 3:22: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever…"
D suggests that both God and Satan are simply human constructs (e.g., ancient myths used to describe the workings of the human mind and universe, etc.).
I was always partial to C myself; although, I find D the most probable. Now, I know that Mormonism has a slightly different take on Satan and his place within the divine "plan of salvation," but it still has to deal with this logical inconsistency.
Also, you can ask them how they deal with the fact that certain "divine" teachings and revelations have the ability to supersede and contradict others (e.g., Joseph Smith's 1843 revelation supporting plural marriage vs. Wilford Woodruff's 1890 declaration and Joseph F. Smith's 1904 declaration banning it, Brigham Young's Adam–God doctrine, Brigham Young's doctrine of blood atonement, etc.), which not only seems like a cheap way for the LDS Church to evade the problem of logical consistency, but a convenient way to abandon doctrines that have become unpopular as well.
I'll be back.
Anywho, she told me stuff that I wasn't sure if she was putting me on or being serious, so if you could clear up a few things I'd appreciate it...
1) Do the men of the Mormon temples have secret handshakes that will prove if they are a member or not?
2) Does Mormon underclothes have religious symbols stitched into them?
3) Do members have secret holy names given to them?
I guess thats all I can remember for now... That was over half a decade ago.. I'm sure there were others... will post more if I think of it...
I've heard that before, and I'm really curious about it.
Palzang
As to what the Latter Day Saints have to do with Christianity, they believe that Jesus appeared in the Americas after the Resurrection - and why not? Certainly, other Christian churches do not recognise them as Christians and they never joined the World Council of Churches , just like the Roman Catholics!
So he said on the 25th of April.
Cheers, Thomas
or else I'll think the Mormons made him Governor of California......
When can you start?
I came across their "loving kindness" in Mongolia where hordes of young, blond Mormon studs roam the countryside, all dressed exactly the same with their starched white shirts and ridiculous ties, trying to con the locals into giving up their long Buddhist heritage and join the church, usually for the promise of free money and education (at Brigham Young University, where many Mongol students have committed suicide after the racist treatment they received there). Many Mongolians will take their money and go to their churches until the money runs out, then return to being Buddhists like they were all along. The Mormons rushed in after the fall of communism smelling opportunity to ensnare new suckers the same way flies smell u-no-what. It is repulsive.
Despite their loud advocacy of family, you have to understand that their definition of "family" is more like what most of us mean by "compliant". If you're gay, forget family. They'll run you out of town on a rail. And if you're black or some other color than white, you can forget ever being accepted as an equal by a Mormon. It was only recently that they were forced to allow blacks to join the church. Before that they considered blacks to have the mark of Ham and thus were untouchable and innately evil.
And don't get me started on Joseph Smith. The man was a looney who talked to an imaginary white salamander!
So that's where my question came from. These people practice nothing like Christianity and are about as far from the teachings of Christ as it is possible to be.
Palzang
Something that attracted me to besides Jesus's teachings was the idea of being able to spend time with my family after my death.
Palzang
What is the Mormon position on porpoises?
P
My impression is that most of the problematic Mormon behaviors arose after Joseph Smith's murder, and reflect the same kind of corruption which arises in any religious movement after its seminal leader is no longer around. (The same kind of corruption can be found in Buddhism.)
All of this is based on the one book, which could be leading me astray, but I'd be interested to know what you're basing your claims on and what period of history they pertain to.
gay or straight porpoises?
Palzang
Yes, that IS an IDEA. But saying it doesn't necessarily make it so.
The fact is, whatever happens when we die is whatever happens. And no amount of ideas, be they Mormon or Buddhist, will change what really happens. If there is life after death, we cannot know that until after we have died, and we cannot know what it is like until after we have died. If there is NO life after death ... we will never find that out!
We all have our beliefs one way or the other ... but it is really important to not to confuse "belief" with "knowledge".
No, lady-boy porpoises actually
5B, I think I may have (ahem) gone a tad overboard with my assertions. Actually, checking the sources (novel idea!) I see that in most cases (such as Nauvoo) the Mormons were run out because 1) everyone else in the area was jealous of their prosperity, and 2) they thought their religion was heretical and dangerous.
Palzang
They told me they were going to help me become 'one with God.'
Meaning that you and God are separate things to start with. That's my problem with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. They see "me" and "God" as totally separate things requiring strenuous effort in order to "become one".
Mtns
Run away!
P
Palzang
This reminds me of a time when I was about 13 or 14 and believed whole heartedly in "god" and I was at army camp and a kid who wasn't shy about his pagan upbringing asked me and a god fearing friend of mine to show us our god... we obviously said we couldn't... Then he said he would show us his good tomorrow...
Well, we prayed and were very afraid that the pagan boy was seriously going to produce his evil pagan god to us...
The next day some time in the afternoon he indeed showed us his god... He brought us to a huge oak tree and said, "there's my god" and laughed at us and walked away...
I had a funny Jewish Pagan Cowboy kid in basic also man was he a retard.
Their story is that God didn't create everything, he just gave shape to a universe that already existed, so good and evil were already present.
They believe that at a council of angels before the Earth was created, God presented his plan to create a world and allow his "spirit children" to incarnate there to gain experience and wisdom and earn their place in one of the heavens, Jesus agreed to the plan and offered himself as the sacrificial lamb, as they believe people can never hope to get into heaven on their own merits, as to go to heaven they must be pure, so Jesus took their sins on him. Lucifer disagreed with the plan and said that all people should be made sinless so they could all get back into heaven. Since Lucifer's plan was rejected he led a war in heaven and got exiled. He wasn't made evil, his pride made him evil.
The angel (Moroni) didn't insist anything. Smith would stick his head in a hat and read out the words that were magically translated for him, it was his decision to write the BoM in a similar style to the Bible, he could have written it however he wanted.
Yes. They believe God was once a man who was so good and sinless that after death he was awarded with a universe of his own to continue the Creation. He lives on a planet orbiting a star called Kolob. And yes, they believe we all have the potential to do the same, so long as we're Mormon, fulfil all the covenants and lead a pretty much blameless life.
Mormonism is what you get if you take scriptural literalism to its logical extreme.
That seems contrary to everything I've ever learnt, are you sure they didn't say they'd help you become like God?
Palzang
"... help you become one with the Father."
To me that is similar meaning to becoming like God.
I'd like to ask them about alot of the things you said. I'll go through some questions and ask them myself.
Are you certain these were from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? There are other groups like the FLDS and RLDS who have different beliefs.