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Enjoyment
BaileyD
Explorer
If we enjoy something are we attached to it? Can we enjoy things without being attached to them or their enjoyment?
0
Comments
I think you already partly answered your own question when you answered my question about the pillow. I agree with you that attachment is a mental thing.
Say for example that you buy a pizza. The pizza tastes good and your hunger disappears. You have enjoyed eating the pizza. But have you gotten attached to the pizza? Do you need another pizza because after enjoying the pizza you need more pizza?
I think the same goes for a lot of things which can be enjoyed. I enjoy playing video games, but I'm not attached to it. I can give up video games any time.
Maybe smoking is another thing, most people enjoy smoking, but after smoking most people want another cigarette. So they enjoy smoking, but after a while they want another cigarette, after the next cigarette, they want another cigarette again. They keep on smoking and smoking. I know that is called addiction, but it also means you are attached to the enjoyment of smoking.
So to answer your question (with what I think), is that as long as your enjoyment is no form of addiction, as long as you can also live without your enjoyment, then you're not attached to that enjoyment.
I think attachment is something which you give very much value, and something, which you will protect. So say you give pizza very much value, and you want to make sure that you are able to buy a lot of pizza's and if you have a fear that you might not be able to eat pizza again. Then yes, in that case you would be attached to pizza.
Well, this is how I see attachment..
The point is to permit detachment when the time comes to detach.
Okay young man, no video games for 12 months. Think you can do it? Go on, give it a try!
Can you elaborate on this?
Yep. Without any grief or any kind of mental suffeirng... This is a lot easier said than done though
The "secret key" is to learn to FEEL the bad that it brings, not merely acknowledge it. If it truly brings no bad to be known then you are safe and wise in attaching to it.
The problematic thinking with your secret key is that in the process of attaching to it, you create clinging which will in turn cloud your acceptance of the phenomena's transience. No objects bring bad things, but the way we relate to them can be unskillful by attaching.
I think there is an important distinction there, because the way you're saying it, you say to judge a phenomena as good or bad... which does not lead directly to an expansive view. If, rather, we look at the impermanence of the phenomena, as a rising in the senses, then as we interact with it we can do so with skillful means. Do you hear the difference?
With warmth,
Matt
I think it would not be terribly conducive to attempt to practice the Noble Eightfold Path in, say, a bordello. In this extreme example I would say that it is fair to "judge a phenomena as [bad]". I seriously doubt you will find any enlightened beings dwelling in bordellos so I think we can safely say that someone who wants to seriously practice the Noble Eightfold Path should stop going to such places, since they are "bad" (not leading to Nibbana).
Conversely, such places as monasteries, retreat centers you might say are "good" since such places are very conducive to developing wholesome/skillful/good qualities which lead to Nibbana.
While I do not disagree entirely with what you are saying, that our interaction with our environment is important, it is not a one way street. The environment we are in will influence us both physically and mentally whether we like it or not. It can be expected that someone with wise friends and a peaceful dwelling will develop in wholesome qualities, in the same way that it can be expected that someone who spends all their spare time and money in a bordello will move in the opposite direction.
I use the bordello as an extreme example so that it clearly paints a picture of the importance of creating an environment which is conducive to our practice if we wish to grow in wholesome qualities. It is in this sense that I believe it is a wise thing to judge certain things as "good" and "bad", not in a puritanical way where we have to destroy all bad things, but simply in a way where we keep a safe distance from danger.
With Metta,
Guy
Maintaining a polar view of extremes seems like something to outgrow rather than embrace. Viewing the bordello as bad would only distance yourself from the phenomena, which seems wholly unnecessary. Wouldn't it be better to relate to the bordello as a bordello? Even without a concrete moral declaration, stepping past the establishment would be simple. Even thinking "That place would hinder me in the here and now" would be a subjective relating, more correct than "bad place"
Of course, when dealing with such dramatic examples, it is more difficult to avoid extremes. I was referring more toward the pizza example, where assigning good and bad qualities to the pie might not be the most skillful interaction with it... and only to help illumine the difference between enjoyment and attachment for the OP.
I can imagine a place for teaching social morality... but then, when you reach a certain level of openness, doesn't the social morality (good and bad phenomena) evaporate and become replaced by genuine morality (phenomena we relate to skillfully)? What do you think?
With warmth,
Matt
I agree, good points.
With Metta,
Guy
Yes, definitely.