Animals are good Buddhists

Transmetaphysical

Animals act as one with nature. They don't hold wrong views, false beliefs, and don't hold prejudices or hatred.

As Thich Nhat Hanh said, "In Buddhism, all views are wrong views." I doubt that animals hold any "views" or opinions.

Thoughts?


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GuyC

I would have to respectfully disagree with Thich Nhat Hanh:

"And what is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the cessation of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called right view."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-ditthi/index.html

As you can see from the above quote, the Buddha is not saying that any kind of view is wrong view. He clearly defines what is "Right View" as the Four Noble Truths. Animals don't have knowledge of the Four Noble Truths.

Transmetaphysical

GuyC wrote: »

I would have to respectfully disagree with Thich Nhat Hanh:



http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-ditthi/index.html

As you can see from the above quote, the Buddha is not saying that any kind of view is wrong view. He clearly defines what is "Right View" as the Four Noble Truths. Animals don't have knowledge of the Four Noble Truths.

The word "view" is used differently in that context. By "view" Buddha seems to be referring to insight and understanding of reality. And the Four Noble Truths are more of a method than a "view."

Hanh is saying that all views are wrong views because once you get in touch with reality, your understanding is no longer called a view.

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Mountains

Transmetaphysical wrote: »

Animals act as one with nature. They don't hold wrong views, false beliefs, and don't hold prejudices or hatred.

While it's true that animals (as far as we know) don't hold prejudices or hatred, I can state with 100% certainty that my dog holds false beliefs. She believes that every time I pick up my car keys she's going to get to go for a ride in the car.



Mtns

FoibleFull

And I'm not sure about animals not holding hatred. My dog has hated cats ever since one took a swat at him.

The problem, of course, for animals is that they are unable to become free from their automatic and instinctive behaviors, and unable to become free from their attachments and aversions. There is no freedom for them.

Transmetaphysical

"Animals are not rational because they do not need to be. Their consciousness is guided directly and intimately by Nature's profound intelligence, which men of religion and science seem incapable of comprehending. Animals have no conception of mortality and do not live in fear of death. Their lives have meaning without the need of anxiety or morbid thoughts to bring that sense of meaning about." - Michael Tsarion



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FoibleFull

Transmetaphysical wrote: »

"Animals are not rational because they do not need to be. Their consciousness is guided directly and intimately by Nature's profound intelligence, which men of religion and science seem incapable of comprehending. Animals have no conception of mortality and do not live in fear of death. Their lives have meaning without the need of anxiety or morbid thoughts to bring that sense of meaning about." - Michael Tsarion

If you observe pets, if you observe wild animals, you will see that they are just as "ruled" by their attachments, aversions, as well as the anxiety of maintaining their territory and of having access to mating. They live by instinct, totally overwhelmed by whatever emotion they are in the throes of at the moment ... hardly what one would expect from a skillful buddhist.

The squirrels in my backyard are constantly fighting over the rights to my pine tree. My dog knows that when the sun goes down he gets his "chew" and he won't rest until he has it. Deer live in a continual state of alert tension which is easily turned into outright terror. Ants are just plain "driven" to an extent that would shame any New Yorker.

I love the wilderness (and have spent many stretches of months in it in my youth), love animals ... but I fail to see any "profound intelligence" in nature. Michael Tsarion does not sound like someone is very familiar with either animals or with nature.

PietroPumokin

animals are great! they are funny. some of them are mean though, and some are very stupid. i've never seen a flamingo in person, but i'd like to. and a kangaroo... butterflies are pretty.... actually, sometimes, many of us have animal natures, coming from our roots..... sometimes i'm a man and the people around me are brutes.... and sometimes i'm the brute! good golly what a bughouse.
but according to certain perspectives, and i personally believe in this myself though not all the time.... animals are simply fairly deluded buddhas. but when you look at the butterfly, or the hummingbird, i don't think there's anything there but buddha, the most enlightened buddha there could be.... but animals fall into ego traps very easily, one of my cats is so old and famished that he is always begging for food at the kitchen, and his eyes are black as a void, and my dog often lies around looking so crestfallen that it makes you cringe with sorrow... but he also runs around like a happy doofus when he's on a walk..

Jeffrey

hummingbirds are nasty they attack any other bird that comes to the feeder. but thats just how it looks to me as one who has 3 squares a day.

questionful

I think you're completely mistaken about your assumptions in your first post. How do you know animals don't have views, perceptions, habitual emotional responses, etc?

Fran45

Three magpies on our back lawn yesterday morning viciously attacking a fourth magpie that they had on its back. My husband ran out and dispersed them.

Our dog becomes agitated and can't rest when the postman is in the close, any other dog is walking past, or she can hear other dogs barking. As foiblefull posts, stimulus -response is very basic and without intensive training from humans it is overwhelming.

Our pet rats loved Buddhist chanting however and would sit on my shoulder and become very still and attentive.....

questionful

Haha! That's really interesting about the rats. ^^
I was thinking of getting one or some.

Fran45

I really recommend having pet rats. They are highly intelligent, very sensitive, inquisitive and great company. They are best kept in pairs (at least) as they are very sociable and if you can't be with them for long periods (i.e.all day) they can become very lonely and sicken. They are also very easy to train and you can have great fun playing with them. They loved meditating with me - would sit on my shoulders and curl their tails around my neck. They also enjoyed being carried around the house in a pocket or a sleeve. It is sad though as they have a short life span - 2-3 years if they are lucky - and they do take time and effort to look after and can be destructive, chewing all sorts of stuff (including electric cables unless supervised!)- but as I said, wonderful company.