Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Pledge of Alleigance Unconstitutional??
Pledge of Alleigance Unconstitutional?? Some people consider that the pledge of alliegance is unconstitutional because it refers to God. In my opinion It doesnt matter because in American there is religious freedom so you can practice whatever you want. Some people who recite the pledge are of other religions anyway and practice them.
0
Comments
I don't really like the idea of "under God" but then I don't think it's that big of a deal to me - so I don't worry about it - as long as there continues to be a separation of Church and State.
The Pessimist.
And yes, I do find it unconstitutional. I think it's very clear that the "God", capitalized and singular and male, that the pledge talks about is supposed to refer to the Abrahamic deity, and specifically to the Christian version. The fact that the pledge puts this country supposedly under the control of that specific deity seems like a prettty clear endorsement of that deity and his religion as THE state religion by the government.
Of course, there are those that say it's tradition, the deity of the state, etc. and therefore ok. I find this an ironic twist seeing how many of the first Christians chose martyrdom instead of succumbing to public pressure to go through the motions of the Roman state religion. Granted, no one here is being killed for not saying the pledge yet, but the Roman state was actually quite tolerant to Christians at times. Things can change quickly, though.
I am personally neutral on the subject, however, I do see how certain people can be for or against it. From some of the things I have read about the Founding Fathers, such as the link I provided, I feel that many of them did believe in a "God", but that "God" was not strictly defined. I see it as a more personal interpretation of the Creator rather than the scripturally wrathful Yahweh. In light of this I would agree with DharmaKitten that it is unconstitutional. They clearly wanted church and state to be two completely entities.
Unfortunately, all things are impermanent and even the Constitution will one day cease to be. I feel that the present day United States is a far cry from the vision that our Founding Fathers had. One of the main reasons for the Revolution was Britain's increasingly large taxes on various good and services, and yet today how many more taxes do we have? http://www.harlingen.isd.tenet.edu/coakhist/amrev.html
As wonderful as this country was, and still is, it will not always be that way. The conditions for this country's greatness are fading into the sands of time, and eventually they will cease. One day America will pass into antiquity along with Sumer, Persia, Rome, ancient Egypt, along with countless others.
Anybody else remember the story of William Tell who would not bow to the dictator's hat?
Good point DK.
I remember when I was a child - we had to stand up in class - along side our desks every morning to do this.
For the longest time, I couldn't understand why being "invisible - under God" was so important or why he would want me invisible.
I wonder if Hitler Youth had to stand up and recite a whole bunch of statements that they didnt understand...
It is my understanding that if someone doesn't understand something or is too young to understand something - and everything they're saying - it doesn't amount to much.
-bf
IMHO it is a form of brainwashing.
You keep talking like that and you'll never make it Stateside, my friend...
-bf
And I am opposed to brainwashing of our children by whomsoever, as, indeed, you have shown us that you are, too, BF. Let's free our children's minds: it may be the best thing we can do for the future of the planet.
And isn't it fascinating that the 'pledge of allegiance' does not originate with the semi-divine Framers of the Constitution. And that the "under God" stuff was only added in the '50s, when the techniques of "brainwashing" were being studied and used by the combatants in the Korean conflict.
I find it deeply worrying that our UK government is also considering some sort of oath of loyalty as part of the nationalisation process. To the Queen? To Tony Blair? or to the USA (sorry!)? Unacceptable!
As one who will not take the oath in court (I affirm), I find the whole process distasteful - and deeply anti-Scriptural (altho' I've noticed that Christians are reluctant to see it).
Hmmm...but is there really a separation of church and state in this country right now? I cerainly do not feel llike there is sometimes. If it were up to our current President, there would be no separation of church and state!
I personally think the Pledge Of Allegience is silly.
Could you imagive how far someone would get who stated they were an atheist?
Zip.
-bf
-bf
Oh and is the Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional.....no idea, but it sounds sweet when small cute little children recite it :usflag:
Because, silly, God loves the two-point conversion.
I mean, American Football is very religious. Haven't you ever heard of the "Hail Mary" or the "Immaculate Reception"?
Both wonderful, God-fearing American Football terms.
Not like Aussy football (with the guy in the butcher coat they wrangled in to play ref) or European Football also known, in the Latin, as "Sukkerus Wankus" - both sports of the Devil.
-bf
So did the Hitlerjugend when they sang the Horst Wessel Lied.
Anything that stifles original thought and implants pre-packaged nationalism is dangerous, dangerous, dangerous.
The same goes for the bellowing of Jerusalem by the English crowds who have never read another word of Blake and do not recognise his call to socialism and free love!
What!?!?!
Could you please explain both the Hitlerjugend and the bellowing of Jerusalem means?
-bf
Jerusalem is being sung by English sports fans as a celebration of England. It is a poem by William Blake:
I think we are far far away from having an atheist president. First a woman, then maybe a Jew, then a Hispanic guy, then a black guy, then a minority woman, then a Jewish minority woman, then maybe a deist, then maybe - when they run out of people who want to be the president - including foreigners (after they change the constitution for Arnold) - maybe, just maybe, they'll punish an atheist with the job.
They do that to make up for the times they are out cheating on their wives. They think that if they "thank god" then it makes the cheating ok.
I am joking, by the way.......