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Food (ahara)
upekka
Veteran
in Lord Buddha's Teaching it says there are four types of food, namely
kabalinkara-ahara (food we eat)
passa-ahara
mano-sancethanika-ahara
and
vinnana-ahara
we can read 'ahara sutta' and other relevant suttas before start any discussion
can someone forward links to relevant suttas please
kabalinkara-ahara (food we eat)
passa-ahara
mano-sancethanika-ahara
and
vinnana-ahara
we can read 'ahara sutta' and other relevant suttas before start any discussion
can someone forward links to relevant suttas please
0
Comments
don't you know how to use google search?
i have read one sutta relevant to food
but
there could be more than one
How about this Upekka?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn46/sn46.051.than.html
thanks deshy
do you know there is another sutta in which Buddha says 'take your food considering as puthra-mansa' etc.
Ahara Sutta: Nutriment
What does this all mean?
SN 12.12; SN 12.31; SN 12.63; SN 12.64; AN 10.27;
:eek:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.063.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.064.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an10/an10.027x.nypo.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.012.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.031.than.html
Do you mean the Puttamansa Sutta: A Son's Flesh ?
:eek::hair:
:eek::hair::eek::hair::eek::hair::eek::hair::eek:
i need to read them and think over them before come for a discussion
thanks again
nope
but
it is good if we use 'i and we' than 'you' then the feeling that we all are in the same boat let everyone to feel comfortable and work without arguing
what we need is to read the suttas again and again to get the gist of them and think over it (getting cintamaya nana -critically analysed) and then contemplate (do ingsight meditation) to grasp the meaning
unless we all repeat what the sutta says in our own perspective (with wrong view)
such discussion take us astray
what we need is to understand Buddha's Teaching not another debate for the sake of debate/argument
"Jerky" was referring to the Sutta quoted by DD. They made Jerky from their child. bizarre. (whats the Pali word for Jerky ?)
:hair:
Please lead the discussion.
I always found the teaching of the Four Nutriments intriguing and one difficult to understand.
I always wondered why the Buddha taught it?
What is the essense or purpose of this teaching?
but see
we can take this as an example for investigating a dhamma concepts
just reading 'jerky' i got the wrong view of 'Richard got the wrong view', 'Richard think i am stuck here', etc.
and
my mind made me write an answer to it
the whole answer is in vain because it was not your intention
but
my mind take it as it was intended for me
wrong view (micca dhitti) lead to wrong perception (micca sankappa) lead to wrong thought (micca sankhara) lead to wrong body action (kaya kamma)
see how we walk in this samsara without knowing that we are walking
I really don't get some suttas. Do you wonder IF the Buddha taught it by any chance? What do you make of this sutta DD?
First, the Four Nutriments is a common teaching. For example, it is in MN 9 and MN 38.
I can only say the physical food example may give a clue. Here, physical food, which is a requisite of life, is to be used only when necessary.
Similarly, as human beings, we cannot live without consciousness, contact and intention.
The Buddha points out, with very graphic similies, how these four nutriments can lead to dukkha.
Therefore, I suppose the teaching is about we must be very careful with these things & how we use them.
MN 9 and MN 38 place the nutriments into the four noble truths formula, saying nutriment originates (I would use the term 'generate' or 'proliferate') from craving.
Intention is an example. Sometimes, a good intention may become problematic.
That is all I can think the teaching is about.
There is a commentary at this link, which I have never read.
I can recall trying to read it many years ago but I gave up very quickly.
Kind regards
Hmmm... that seems like it. Thanks DD.
However, the simile in which the parents murder the baby does not sound like a case of casual sensual indulgence but a desperate attempt to live which again is a craving afterall.
Don't you think "murdering the baby" similie is a bad example
The parents did it only as a last option but then they spent the rest of the days repenting it which would imply "physical food, which is a requisite of life, should not be used it such ways even as a last option..." Does that mean it is better to die than...
Well of course it is but then again that doesn't get the intended message across, you know what I mean?
I think it is a good simile to reveal the suffering inherent in living. It illustrates the true meaning of eating to live in order that those in training not live to eat such as those doing dhutanga practice of single meal a day.
It also means that life itself is really suffering and survival is dependent on sacrificing another. Each human life is dependent on sacrificing many other beings which is simply inevitable.
What this means is that each of us have an obligation to minimise our drainage of the resources and leave as small a carbon footprint as we can.
in sabbasava sutta it says it is important to contemplate (prathyaveksha) on food we eat
and
we are taught to do 'asuba bavana' on food too
trees breath in what we breath out
we breath in what we breath in
almost all food come from trees
even meat (animal eats trees) comes from trees
food makes bones and flesh
bone and flesh go to eath at last helping to make trees
is there anything we can get out of this food chain?
i mean if there is no 'solid food' (kabalinka ahara), 'food' for thought at least?
come on dhamma friends, we do not want to die with hunger yet?:p
DO WE?
Vegetables? :cool:
Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television.
During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet.
"We still do not know how he survives," neurologist Sudhir Shah told reporters after the end of the experiment. "It is still a mystery what kind of phenomenon this is."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jTToZb5_sZ3l5zoP7h4799CkAzIQ
a very good starting point deshy
thanks
but
what vegetables deshy?
or
what is vegetables?
corrots, beans, cabbage etc.
or
apo (water element), thejo (fire element), vayo (air element), pathavei (earth element) ?
Is this being & birth something physical or is it something mental?
Four sutta translations on food.
1. All creatures are stayed by food. (Anguttara X,27: v,50)
2. With the coming together of three things, monks, there is descent into the womb. If mother and father come together, but the mother is not in season and the one to be tied[a] is not present, then so far there is not descent into the womb. If the mother and father come together and the mother is in season, but the one to be tied is not present, then still there is not descent into the womb. But when, monks, mother and father come together and the mother is in season and the one to be tied is present—then, with this coming together of three things, there is descent into the womb. Then, monks, for nine or ten months the mother carries him about in the womb in her belly with great trouble, a heavy burden. Then, monks, at the end of nine or ten months the mother gives him birth with great trouble, a heavy burden. Then after he is born she nourishes him with her own blood; for in the discipline of the noble ones, monks, the mother's milk is blood. (M. 38: i,265-66)
3. Thus I heard. Once the Auspicious One was living at Sāvatthi in Jeta's Grove, in Anāthapindika's Park. There the Auspicious One addressed the monks.
—Monks!
—Lord! those monks assented to the Auspicious One. The Auspicious One said this.
—There are, monks, these four foods staying creatures that have become or assisting those seeking to be. Which are the four? Solid food, coarse or fine; secondly contact; thirdly mental intention; fourthly consciousness. These, monks, are the four foods staying creatures that have become or assisting those seeking to be.
And how, monks, should solid food be regarded? Suppose, monks, a man and his wife taking few provisions set out on a desert track; and they have a beloved only son. And when they are in the desert the few provisions of that man and wife are consumed and run out; and they still have the rest of the desert to cross. And then, monks, that man and wife think 'Our few provisions are consumed and have run out, and there is the rest of the desert to cross: what if we were to kill this darling and beloved only son of ours, prepare dried and cured meat, and eating our son's flesh we were in this way to cross the rest of the desert? Let not all three perish.' Then, monks, that man and wife kill that darling and beloved only son, prepare dried and cured meat, and eating their son's flesh in this way they cross the rest of the desert. And as they eat their son's flesh they beat their breast 'Where is our only son! Where is our only son!' What think you, monks, would they be taking food for sport? Would they be taking food for pleasure? Would they be taking food for adornment? Would they be taking food for embellishment?
—No indeed, lord.
—Would they not be taking food, monks, just for crossing the desert?
—Yes, lord.
—It is in just this way, monks, that I say solid food should be regarded. When solid food is comprehended, monks, the lust of the five strands of sensuality[c] is comprehended: when the lust of the five strands of sensuality is comprehended, there is no attachment attached by which a noble disciple should again return to this world.
And how, monks, should contact-food be regarded? Suppose, monks, there is a flayed cow: if she stands against a wall she is devoured by the animals living on the wall; if she stands against a tree she is devoured by the animals on the tree; if she stands in the water she is devoured by the animals living in the water; if she stands in the open she is devoured by the animals living in the open. Wherever, monks, that flayed cow may stand she is devoured by the animals living in that place. It is in just this way, monks, that I say contact-food should be regarded.
When contact-food is comprehended, monks, the three feelings[d] are comprehended; when the three feelings are comprehended, there is nothing further, I say, for the noble disciple to do.
And how, monks, should mental-intention-food be regarded? Suppose, monks, there is a charcoal-pit deeper than a man's height, and full of clear glowing charcoal; and there comes a man who likes life and dislikes death, who likes pleasure and dislikes pain; and two powerful men seize his two arms and drag him towards that charcoal-pit: then, monks, that man,s intention would be directed elsewhere, his desire would be directed elsewhere, his aspiration would be directed elsewhere. Why is that? That man, monks, thinks 'If I fall into this charcoal-pit I shall thereby meet with death or with pains like those of dying'. It is in just this way, monks, that I say mental-intention-food should be regarded.
When mental-intention-food is comprehended, monks, the three cravings[e] are comprehended; when the three cravings are comprehended, there is nothing further, I say, for the noble disciple to do.
And how, monks, should consciousness-food be regarded? Suppose, monks, a guilty thief is caught and brought before the king: 'This, sire, is a guilty thief: sentence him to what punishment you please'. The king says 'Go, my friend, and wound this fellow a hundred times this morning with a spear'. And they wound him a hundred times in the morning with a spear. Then at midday the king says 'My friend, how is that fellow?' 'Sire, he is still alive.' The king says 'Go, my friend, and wound that fellow a hundred times now at midday with a spear'. And they wound him a hundred times at midday with a spear. Then at nightfall the king says 'My friend, how is that fellow?' 'Sire, he is still alive.' The king says 'Go, my friend, and wound that fellow a hundred times now at nightfall with a spear'. And they wound him a hundred times at nightfall with a spear. What do you think, monks, would this man being wounded three hundred times during the day with a spear thereby experience pain and grief?
—Even, lord, being wounded once with a spear he would thereby experience pain and grief. How much more three hundred times!
—It is in just this way, monks, that I say consciousness-food should be regarded. When consciousness-food is comprehended, monks, name-&-matter is comprehended; when name-&-matter is comprehended, there is nothing further, I say, for the noble disciple to do.
So said the Auspicious One. Those monks were gladdened and delighted in the Auspicious One's words. (Nidāna Samy. 63: ii,97-100)
4. Monks, do you see 'this has become'?
—Yes, lord.
—Monks, do you see 'coming-to-be with this food'?
—Yes, lord.
—Monks, do you see 'with cessation of this food, what has become is subject to cessation'?
—Yes, lord.
—In one who is doubtful, monks, 'What if this has not become?', there arises uncertainty.
—Yes, lord.
—In one who is doubtful, monks, 'What if there is not coming-to-be with this food?', there arises uncertainty.
—Yes, lord.
—In one who is doubtful, monks, 'What if with cessation of this food, what has become is not subject to cessation?', there arises uncertainty.
—Yes, lord.
—By one who sees with right understanding as it really is, monks, 'This has become', uncertainty is abandoned.
—Yes, lord.
—By one who sees with right understanding as it really is, monks, 'Coming-to-be with this food', uncertainty is abandoned.
—Yes, lord.
—By one who sees with right understanding as it really is, monks, 'With cessation of this food, what has become is subject to cessation', uncertainty is abandoned.
—Yes, lord.
—'This has come to be': herein, monks, are you free from uncertainty?
—Yes, lord.
—'Coming-to-be with this food': herein, monks, are you free from uncertainty?
—Yes, lord.
—'With cessation of this food, what has become is subject to cessation': herein, monks, are you free from uncertainty?
—Yes, lord.
—'This has come to be' is well seen with right understanding as it really is?
—Yes, lord.
—'Coming-to-be with this food' is well seen with right understanding as it really is?
—Yes, lord.
—'With cessation of this food, what has become is subject to cessation' is well seen with right understanding as it really is?
—Yes, lord.
—If, monks, you were to cling to this cleansed and purified view, if you were to treasure it, adhere to it, or cherish it, would you then, monks, be comprehending the teaching of the parable of the raft[f] as something for crossing over with, not for holding on to?
—No indeed, lord.
—If, monks, you were not to cling to this cleansed and purified view, if you were not to treasure it, adhere to it, or cherish it, would you then, monks, be comprehending the teaching of the parable of the raft as something for crossing over with, not for holding on to?
—Yes, lord.
—There are, monks, these four foods staying creatures that have become or assisting those seeking to be. Which are the four? Solid food, coarse or fine; secondly contact; thirdly mental intention; fourthly consciousness. And these four foods: what is their occasion, what is their arising, what is their provenance, what is their origin? These four foods: craving is their occasion, craving is their arising, craving is their provenance, craving is their origin.
And this craving...? ...feeling is its origin.
And this feeling...? ...contact is its origin.
And this contact...? ...the six bases are its origin.
And these six bases...? ...name-&-matter is their origin.
And this name-&-matter...? ...consciousness is its origin.
And this consciousness...? ...determinations are its origin.
And these determinations: what is their occasion, what is their arising, what is their provenance, what is their origin? These determinations: nescience[g] is their occasion, nescience is their arising, nescience is their provenance, nescience is their origin.
Thus, monks, with nescience as condition, determinations; with determinations as condition, consciousness; with consciousness as condition, name-&-matter; with name-&-matter as condition, the six bases; with the six bases as condition, contact; with contact as condition, feeling; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, holding; with holding as condition, being; with being as condition, birth; with birth as condition, ageing-&-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair, come to be: thus is the arising of this whole mass of suffering. (M. 38: i,260-263)
Source: http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=205&Itemid=52
Metta,
Retro.