Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Buddhism and Profanity

MalcolmMalcolm
edited May 2010 in Buddhism Basics
The Noble Eightfold Path includes right speech. All the literature that I have read divides this into: abstaining from false speech; abstaining from slanderous speech; abstaining from harsh speech; and abstaining from idle chatter. Nothing that I have seen specifically mentions profanity - "the language of the uneducated" (Mark Twain I think). I suppose idle chatter would be the most appropriate area.

I am interested in other members' views.

Cheers,
Malcolm

Comments

  • questionfulquestionful
    edited May 2010
    I think profanity can be completely harmless sometimes, but because people are so human, you never know when someone's gonna get their panties in a bunch because they heard a certain sound.
  • ValtielValtiel Veteran
    edited May 2010
    That and/or harsh speech.

    Personally, I don't find profanity inherently offensive although some people do. To me it depends on the context. Some well-known Buddhist teachers are known to have a curse word or two in their personal vocabulary. ;D
  • InmostLightInmostLight
    edited May 2010
    I think it depends how it's used and where you are on the path. I see no reason for using profanity thrown into sentences, but sometimes use them when being surprised by unexpected happenings. It doesn't deliver the message any more effectively. Many would use exclamation words if they're late for meetings, etc... but I believe with time one would realize that these words don't improve the situation.

    Gil Fronsdal has an 8-part (I believe it's 8) dharma talk about right speech and this is briefly covered. They're worth listening to!
  • questionfulquestionful
    edited May 2010
    but for example, if i was telling someone a story and I wanted to express how i felt about the government doing some stupid shenanigans, "what the fuck!" would be a good phrase choice because it can be implemented with many different inflictions very successfully.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited May 2010
    You can curse if you like, just don't curse at each other. :) That's how we run the site, and it happens to be my interpretation of profanity and Right Speech.
  • TransmetaphysicalTransmetaphysical Veteran
    edited May 2010
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D7rWLzloOI
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Again with the Osho? You know this is a Buddhist forum, right?
  • TransmetaphysicalTransmetaphysical Veteran
    edited May 2010
    GuyC wrote: »
    Again with the Osho? You know this is a Buddhist forum, right?

    I post what I feel is relevant. It just so happens that a few consecutive instances called for a relevant quote that happened to be Osho.



    .
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited May 2010
    I think its like either an observation 'oh osho again' or its like an ad hominem 'oh osho is always wrong'....

    I think a separate thread would have to be posted about why Osho is invalid and it would probably not be a good idea to talk about with strong emotion in my opinion.

    I am trying to say something. I don't like all the fuck fuck but I do recognize that Osho is a published author. Though I know he had some controversial followers in particular and he unashamedly ran a colorful camp. All the same I think his teachings should be evaluated on their own merits rather than "I think many things Osho advocated were at best crazy wisdom and probably downright childish" which is my opinion but it isn't relevant to all his quotes because perhaps he has some gems that can be very helpful.

    All I can say to that specific quote is that its kind of playing with inhibitions and it does show a variety of usage. And it feels rather silly to me. I don't have any confidence that saying fuck you five times every morning would help me, but what do I know?
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Perhaps you feel its relevant, but I don't think its appropriate. Some members of this forum are quite young and impressionable, do you think it is wise to post quotes like this in light of this?
  • TransmetaphysicalTransmetaphysical Veteran
    edited May 2010
    GuyC wrote: »
    Perhaps you feel its relevant, but I don't think its appropriate. Some members of this forum are quite young and impressionable, do you think it is wise to post quotes like this in light of this?

    I find it humorous and a unique perspective of language. People need to lighten up. Plus, a poster above me already posted the "f" word. However, I will edit it out if people are really that easily offended.



    .
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Personally I don't find it offensive. I do, however, find it a little tedious explaining to a seemingly intelligent person such as yourself why it is not suitable to post such rubbish on a family-friendly Buddhist forum. Please use your common sense.
  • TransmetaphysicalTransmetaphysical Veteran
    edited May 2010
    GuyC wrote: »
    Personally I don't find it offensive. I do, however, find it a little tedious explaining to a seemingly intelligent person such as yourself why it is not suitable to post such rubbish on a family-friendly Buddhist forum. Please use your common sense.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Einstein

    .
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited May 2010
    My common sense told me that you would make a comment about common sense as soon as I clicked the "post reply" button. Anyway, you know what I mean smart aleck!
  • TransmetaphysicalTransmetaphysical Veteran
    edited May 2010
    GuyC wrote: »
    My common sense told me that you would make a comment about common sense as soon as I clicked the "post reply" button. Anyway, you know what I mean smart aleck!

    LOL. :lol:


    .
  • TreehuggerTreehugger
    edited May 2010
    I've heard Ajahn Braham swear on more than one occasion in some of his dhamma talks :P
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2010
    Malcolm wrote: »
    The Noble Eightfold Path includes right speech. All the literature that I have read divides this into: abstaining from false speech; abstaining from slanderous speech; abstaining from harsh speech; and abstaining from idle chatter. Nothing that I have seen specifically mentions profanity - "the language of the uneducated" (Mark Twain I think). I suppose idle chatter would be the most appropriate area.

    I am interested in other members' views.

    Cheers,
    Malcolm

    Here's a similar thread we had on this subject not too long ago/
  • lightwithinlightwithin Veteran
    edited May 2010
    Ever since I read about "right speech" and abstaining from harsh speech, I've been re-thinking my cursing ways and even feeling a lil guilt when I do let curse words slip by my mind (I almost never speak them out loud).

    I've had enough guilt to fill an ocean in my lifetime, and I don't want Buddhism and it's teachings to produce more of that in me, but it's hard for me to see things clearly at the same time and my mind can't help but to misinterpret some of the very insightful information I've been in contact with since I decided to learn more about Buddhism. I've got a weird, tricky brain!
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited May 2010
    lightwithin wrote: »
    Ever since I read about "right speech" and abstaining from harsh speech, I've been re-thinking my cursing ways and even feeling a lil guilt when I do let curse words slip by my mind (I almost never speak them out loud).

    I've had enough guilt to fill an ocean in my lifetime, and I don't want Buddhism and it's teachings to produce more of that in me

    You know what is harmful, that is already quite meritorious in it's own right. When you know what is harmful, and you forgive yourself for your occassional slip ups, then it is only a matter of time before Right Speech and Right Action come into alignment with your Right View. We all make mistakes in practice (that's why its called practice), I've made loads of them, if we had perfect conduct from the start then we wouldn't need to practice! You are human and you are trying your best - you can't ask for more than that! Well done!
    but it's hard for me to see things clearly at the same time and my mind can't help but to misinterpret some of the very insightful information I've been in contact with since I decided to learn more about Buddhism. I've got a weird, tricky brain!
    You're not alone. Just keep practicing those parts of Buddhism you do understand - those parts which don't make sense just put to one side for now. If something makes sense but you have trouble integrating it into your practice, then just be patient with yourself and investigate what is the reason why, things will work out in the end. :)
  • lightwithinlightwithin Veteran
    edited May 2010
    GuyC wrote: »
    You know what is harmful, that is already quite meritorious in it's own right. When you know what is harmful, and you forgive yourself for your occassional slip ups, then it is only a matter of time before Right Speech and Right Action come into alignment with your Right View. We all make mistakes in practice (that's why its called practice), I've made loads of them, if we had perfect conduct from the start then we wouldn't need to practice! You are human and you are trying your best - you can't ask for more than that! Well done!

    You're not alone. Just keep practicing those parts of Buddhism you do understand - those parts which don't make sense just put to one side for now. If something makes sense but you have trouble integrating it into your practice, then just be patient with yourself and investigate what is the reason why, things will work out in the end. :)

    Thanks! Your post was very reassuring and helpful. I don't feel as bad now for not being able to fully grasp certain aspects of Buddhism yet and for slipping in my practice of the Eightfold Path. I'll keep at it!
  • Micsunderland3Micsunderland3
    edited May 2010
    I think right speech means to be weary of the intent of your speech, not what is technically being said.

    Non profane, aggressive words can be much more harmful than Profanity used jokingly.
  • questionfulquestionful
    edited May 2010
    I felt more guilt after learning about how full of mistakes my habits are, but then i realized that feeling the guilt so much is a mistake too. habits change slowly, it's pointless to lament over that. If we all give ourselves and each other a break and just keep trying, everything will be allllllright. :)
Sign In or Register to comment.