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Rebirth in This One and Only Life
A few people have made reference to Buddhadhasa's "Paticcasamuppada: Practical Dependent Origination". I think it may be helpful to give an example of a rebirth of "I" based on one of four examples found in Santikaro's 1992 translation. For those who may not know, Santikaro was Ajahn Buddhadhasa's translator for many years. His website can be found here.
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>As another example, let us suppose that there is a young male student who fails his final exam. He may end up fainting or going to bed at night crying. How does this happen? The student goes to where the exam results are posted and either doesn't see his name listed as passing or sees his name listed as failing. He sees the posted results with his eyes. Those posted lists have a meaning...they are not merely form. The lists are meaningful forms which tell him something he wants to know. When his eyes perceive the lists, a kind of eye consciousness arises that gives rise to mind/body. That is, his body and mind which were in a state of normalcy suddenly change character. They are now primed to give rise to sense bases and contact which can lead to suffering.
The sense bases in their normal condition are not characterized by suffering, but when they are mixed with ignorance, these sense bases will work in a way to help suffering arise. There will be contact, feeling and so on, all the way up to attachment to the "I" concept: "I failed!" The student falls down in a faint at the moment the eyes perceive the list. In that brief moment, he faints. This is called one complete working of the twelve conditions of Dependent Origination. The student has a self that failed, and so this self experiences great suffering, grief, and tribulation.
Several hours or even two or three days later, that student thinks about his failing again and he may faint again. The same symptoms arise. It is a manifestation of Dependent Origination in the same way, but this time it begins with the mind door, or mind consciousness. When consciousness arises, it causes mentality/materiality of a type subject to suffering to arise. That, in turn, causes suffering prone sense bases to arise, which cause suffering prone feeling, grasping and attachment to arise. Each in their order is conditioned by ignorance for suffering. Finally, conditioned birth arises again: "I have failed my exam!"
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Question: Would anyone be willing to share a personal direct experience of a rebirth of "I" that may have happened recently?
acariya
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>As another example, let us suppose that there is a young male student who fails his final exam. He may end up fainting or going to bed at night crying. How does this happen? The student goes to where the exam results are posted and either doesn't see his name listed as passing or sees his name listed as failing. He sees the posted results with his eyes. Those posted lists have a meaning...they are not merely form. The lists are meaningful forms which tell him something he wants to know. When his eyes perceive the lists, a kind of eye consciousness arises that gives rise to mind/body. That is, his body and mind which were in a state of normalcy suddenly change character. They are now primed to give rise to sense bases and contact which can lead to suffering.
The sense bases in their normal condition are not characterized by suffering, but when they are mixed with ignorance, these sense bases will work in a way to help suffering arise. There will be contact, feeling and so on, all the way up to attachment to the "I" concept: "I failed!" The student falls down in a faint at the moment the eyes perceive the list. In that brief moment, he faints. This is called one complete working of the twelve conditions of Dependent Origination. The student has a self that failed, and so this self experiences great suffering, grief, and tribulation.
Several hours or even two or three days later, that student thinks about his failing again and he may faint again. The same symptoms arise. It is a manifestation of Dependent Origination in the same way, but this time it begins with the mind door, or mind consciousness. When consciousness arises, it causes mentality/materiality of a type subject to suffering to arise. That, in turn, causes suffering prone sense bases to arise, which cause suffering prone feeling, grasping and attachment to arise. Each in their order is conditioned by ignorance for suffering. Finally, conditioned birth arises again: "I have failed my exam!"
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Question: Would anyone be willing to share a personal direct experience of a rebirth of "I" that may have happened recently?
acariya
0
Comments
For the sake of accuracy, Steve Schmidt was the translator here. Santikaro translated only a portion of Buddhadasa's books available in English.
Dear Acariya
Buddhadasa never used the word "rebirth" in dependent origination. Only "birth".
When explaining the ordinary doctrine of rebirth, Buddhadasa's opinion was it is a teaching to encourage morality.
Kind regards
Excuse me for using the word rebirth when it is, as you indicated, birth.
Nevertheless, it's been useful for me to think of the birth of an "I" as rebirth or maybe "born again" would work just as well. It happens many times during the day and if mindfulness was not practiced, it would be the same "I" born millions of times over a lifetime. That was my point when I named the thread.
I think its more accurate to accept simply that birth is happening continuously. It is not the same "I" that is being born, which is probably why some people think rebirth. With each iteration of existence (happening usually every moment) the factors that caused the iteration are absolutely unique, causing a unique birth. We never have the same sensations, same mind, same body for more than an instant... and even in that instant all of those are transitioning, vibrating.
The process is the only continuity, the resultant born object is not. The mind extrapolates, wanting there to be something continuous, secure, static, safe etc.
With warmth,
Matt
:wow: Several thousand in each moment like the example that Buddhadhasa gave?
With this mode of seeing there is no stress. One can choose which way to see things.
several thousand different moments....:rolleyes:
I would agree with this. However, in my own experience, there are conditioned patterns (habits) found in the mind that recur over and over again. These patterns can be "born again" with the "I" at any instant and, without mindfulness, can lead to a reactive (unwholesome) mind instead of a responsive (wholesome) mind.
acariya