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Buddhism and Predestination
NewOne
Explorer
Ok since I'm still new at this. Does it say anywhere that there is predestination or we are meant for something. I know that Predestination is a Christian term, but I was just wondering if it has any holding in Buddhism.
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In the same way, the mind by nature has a predestination to flow to Nirvana.
Sometimes, man made dams may stop a river flowing to the sea.
In the same way, the mind's grasping & clinging blocks it from flowing to Nibbana.
:smilec:
I may be wrong, but I don't think that's quite what the Buddha is saying here. If you read SN 35.200 carefully, the Buddha isn't comparing the river to the mind, he's comparing the river to right view. I agree, as the sutta suggests, that right view inclines towards nibbana, but that's not the same thing as saying "the mind by nature has a predestination to flow to Nirvana." With the right conditions (e.g., right view, etc.), the mind will indeed achieve peace, but the mind itself isn't "predestined" to achieve peace any more than it's predestined not to.
I also dont think Buddha is speaking of our actual life's journey.
I wouldn't use the parable to reinforce any views on predestination.
this is like in "Buddhists World" my karma
this is same with being born and raised a Buddhist for (how many?) ... years and then finding Buddhism, i mean Lord Buddha's Teaching
sure thing
because Buddha's Teaching tells us a beautiful thing
namely
we do not have to surrender to 'predestination' or 'my karma'
instead
we (not anyone but WE) can change our destination/karma today by being wise in our thoughts, speech and deed
As far as I can tell, there is no predestination in buddhism. I've never heard of such a thing. The way I've had it explained to me is that samsara is like an ocean. Sometimes streams go forth, and those same streams shall return.
The analogy is not perfect however, because the path that those streams take is not known in advance. In fact, from a more realistic point of view, it's not ideal to get too caught up in the analogy too much. Because we're not streams. We are much more than that. Any attempt to describe the universe usually falls up short.
But the buddha never taught that it could be known in advance, so in general, no predestination. helpful?
You create your destine in every second you live. Future is built upon what you do in the present. And yes, there is no predestination in Buddhism.
It comes before them.
So I suggest that the question about determinism in this universe is one of science and speculation, not Dharma.
namaste
http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/TheParadoxOfBecoming.pdf
predestination is that every action is known in advance, if not caused by God.
fatalism on the other hand both exists and doesn't exist in buddhism. an example of fatalism, would be something like indras web, which while actions within it are bound to fate, it is simultaneously "free having reduced the whole causal nexus to its center" (keiji nishitani).
Edit: On second thought, maybe it could apply to anyone who is not yet an Arahant.
in Buddha Dharma , a vow is a powerful tool used as a directional guide to the goal. help to print into our deep consciousness for that determination , so that we will not lost our way in the cycle of life and death , nonetheless there are also many will forego their vow and lost their way in samsara and need to re-practice all over again. - so it is not Predestination
As for the Buddha to bestow the prediction of future enlightenment - that is a assurance by the enlightenment one, but there is no fixed date when one would reached that goal, it still up to one's effort in practice.
The Buddha said just as the great ocean has one taste, the Dhamma has one taste, namely, the taste of freedom.
Similarly, the Buddha said the spiritual life has only one goal, namely, the unshakeable freedom of mind.
:smilec:
---
"This being is bound to samsara, karma is his means for going beyond."
SN I, 38.
Yes, but I don't see how any of that implies predestination (i.e., determined beforehand).
This is the cycle of craving (tanha), action (kamma) & habit (vipaka, anusaya)
If one does not enter this cycle, the mind's destination is nibbana
A simple example is drug addiction & going to rehab for cold turkey
It works!
Why?
Because the mind's predestination is to free itself from that craving addiction
Parāyana (Parāyaṇa) (nt.) [fr. parā+i, cp. Vedic parā- yaṇa highest instance, also BSk. parāyaṇa e. g. Divy 57, 327] 1. (n.) final end, i. e. support, rest, relief S <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>38; A <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>155, 156 (tāṇa lena dīpa etc.); J <SMALLCAPS>v.</SMALLCAPS>501=<SMALLCAPS>vi.</SMALLCAPS>375 (dīpañ ca p.). -- 2. (adj. -- ˚) (a) going through to, ending in, aiming at, given to, attached to, having one's end or goal in; also: finding one's support in (as daṇḍa˚ leaning on a stick M <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>88; A <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>138), in foll. phrases prevalent: Amata˚ S <SMALLCAPS>v.</SMALLCAPS>217 sq.; tama˚ Pug 51; Nibbāna˚ S <SMALLCAPS>iv.</SMALLCAPS>373; <SMALLCAPS>v.</SMALLCAPS>218; brahmacariya˚ S <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>234; Maccu˚ S <SMALLCAPS>v.</SMALLCAPS>217; sambodhi˚ D <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>156; <SMALLCAPS>ii.</SMALLCAPS>155; Pug 16. Cp. also Sn 1114 (tap˚=tad˚, see Nd<SUPERSCRIPT>2</SUPERSCRIPT> 411); Miln 148 (ekantasoka˚); DhA <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>28 (rodana, i. e. constantly weeping). <-> (b) destined to, having one's next birth in., e. g. Avīci˚ J <SMALLCAPS>iii.</SMALLCAPS>454; <SMALLCAPS>iv.</SMALLCAPS>159; duggati˚ PvA 32; devaloka˚ J <SMALLCAPS>i.</SMALLCAPS>218; brahmaloka˚ J <SMALLCAPS>iii.</SMALLCAPS>396; Miln 234; sagga˚ J <SMALLCAPS>vi.</SMALLCAPS>329; PvA 42, 160; sugati˚ PvA 89 similarly nīlamañca˚ Pv <SMALLCAPS>ii.</SMALLCAPS>2<SUPERSCRIPT>5</SUPERSCRIPT>. See also pārāyana.
</DIV2><DIV2 id=Parāyika type="article">
Things will continue to change, and nothing lasts forever. Each person has to come up with their own purpose or meaning, and since we have such huge imaginations it can be anything. We can be anything.
In the Anguttara Nikāya the Buddha states:
"If any one says that a man must reap according to his deeds, in that case there is no religious life nor is an opportunity afforded for the entire extinction of sorrow. But if any one says that what a man reaps accords with his deeds, in that case there is a religious life and an opportunity is afforded for the entire extinction of sorrow."
It is not Predestination and not not Predestination. That is, there could be karma in a determinate universe or not.
One way to see this is to look at dependent origination and ask if the must conditions are necessary or contingent. I think it doesn't matter.
"If this happens, this may happen." and "If this happens, this must happen."
Are both compatible with dependent origination.
Dharma is before this universe. Determinism /Indterminism is specific to this universe.
namaste
While karma does indeed matter, you are never a prisoner of your own karma. You have the power to change your "destiny" (also not a Buddhist term) by consciously creating causes that will create better karma. So the original question is, I would say, comparing apples to oranges.
Palzang
Thanks Palzang, well said. You have pointed out the thing that I was trying to say with that extract from AN. I have taken the liberty of interpreting NewOne's query of predestination to be "we are meant for something",or vice versa, and not taking into consideration that NewOne could be comparing orange with apple!:D
Thanks for your comments,thickpaper. But as I am new to Buddhism, I have difficulty trying to grasp the meanings in your comments. But hope I will in due time be able to get it as I read up more.:)