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RAGE

edited June 2010 in Buddhism Basics
Where do rage come from? How do you deal with your hates?

Comments

  • johnathanjohnathan Canada Veteran
    edited June 2010
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    You might also want to check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anger
    and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(emotion)

    The short explanation is that rage (and anger) arises when the organism is threatened, and is followed by different physical preparations for combat - high adrenalin levels, high heart-rate, alertness etc. All used for dealing with injuries and handing out punishment or getting away in a hurry
  • edited June 2010
    Thanks.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited June 2010
    As ficus wrote, rage does occur when the organism feels threatened.

    Interestingly, often the "threat" is all in our heads. And often the threat is that we feel helpless or powerless. It is interesting to watch rage arise in ourselves, to see the sense of power we get from getting angry. This is one way to start observing, to start practicing mindfulness.
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    What FF says is in fact the reason I got interested in Buddhism. To control my anger :) Not that it was obsessive/compulsive, but I felt I wanted to do something to be more mindful in certain situations. I started meditating, and meditation-theory (I chose Buddhist meditation, as I reckoned it to be "original") led me to Buddhism..
  • edited June 2010
    Hahm, anger is caused by threat. What do you think about flash-back angers for traumatic memories? That are also caused threats? or maybe anxiety?

    By the way, It is realy strange, but I suddenly become a bit diffident with my English. Do yo uunderstand me? Mummm, I feel I have a lot things to say, but ... Mmmm I do not know how to say it. It maybe some mental illness.

    namaste
  • edited June 2010
    Consider the anger that some people experience when they are stuck in traffic, when the bus doors close in front of them, when their lawnmower just gave up on them, or when they face a paper jam at the printer. I've seen plenty of anger in these situations. That's a very interesting sort of anger, because neither are there any other people involved, nor are these threatening situations. Can you see through this illusion?

    Cheers, Thomas
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited June 2010
    nescafe wrote: »
    Hahm, anger is caused by threat. What do you think about flash-back angers for traumatic memories? That are also caused threats? or maybe anxiety?

    By the way, It is realy strange, but I suddenly become a bit diffident with my English. Do yo uunderstand me? Mummm, I feel I have a lot things to say, but ... Mmmm I do not know how to say it. It maybe some mental illness.

    namaste

    Yes, flash-back angers are caused by threats some desired thing. Those causes are just in the past. Mental associations bring them out from time to time and we 'relive' them.

    And yes, anxiety is involved here to some degree. Anxiety is always involved around objects of desire or aversion. Either to obtain or maintain a desired thing or to lose or keep away something not desired. Anger arises when one ends up in undesirable circumstances as a reaction to the initial aversion. It has the aversion as a dependent condition and can turn into active rage.

    The issue here is bringing mindfulness to the situation. First to really just know the anger/rage. Not judging it, not pushing it away, but mentally recognizing its presence. This is as opposed to just running with the emotion without real awareness. This is where we trip up and make the situation worse for ourselves. Any time we let our consciousness be absorbed in unmindful states we have a contracted view and act without regard to consequence. We also happen to carry on the misfortune of being angry rather than learning to witness the anger. This is part of the whole process of becoming (bhavana) that we get wrapped up in and causes unnecessary suffering.

    So, we carry this anger in mind, knowing it is anger. This is the first step away from it. Once we get better at acknowledging these emotions, we can steady ourselves amidst them. Not let them overtake us. We can distance ourselves from the emotion without suppressing it and gain a larger perspective on the process. Generally, this all happens in hindsight, but as we build these habits, we can catch ourselves sooner and sooner and eventually see where that sticky point is that we get pulled into the emotion and eventually learn to detangle ourselves from that.

    In regard to your English, are you not a native speaker or are you just reaching a point where you are wanting to describe things that are a bit more abstract, and are therefore unable to express things as well as you'd like?
  • edited June 2010
    Thanks

    @Truthseeker

    That's an interesting point. I came to know the importance of threat in anger for the first time pointed out on this thread. I regarded angers to be drived by the "will to freedom" (something like "the will to power"), that is, anger is a reaction against hindrances to one's free will. The cases you mentioned seem to be explained by my theory. Traffic jam hideres one's will for the destination, lawnmore give up it's owners will to mowing, and so on.

    However, two view points of "threat" and "free will" do not conflict each other. we can define that threat is a feeling one may feel when he/she finds a hindrance to one's will.

    @not1not2

    Hum. it is one of my concern that Buddhist right ways and the socialy accepted ways are inconsistent each other in our time. One can be mindful but at the same time unabale to get of of his bad situations. I wonder if this inconsistency may be the reason why PTSD prevails.

    Yes, I am not native English speaker. I am currently on English vocab learning using a new method. It seems very effective but somewhat I am being confused.

    Thanks, namaste.
  • edited June 2010
    This is just my opinion, but being a long-time Vajrayanist, I almost always find myself asking what HH Dalai Lama would say. I believe HH Dalai Lama would say get appropriate treatment for the PTSD and use Buddhist techniques to supplement that.

    It goes back to the old story about the man who had been shot with an arrow. No amount of analysis will take the arrow out. First, get the arrow out, then do the analysis.
  • edited June 2010
    nescafe wrote: »
    I regarded angers to be drived by the "will to freedom" (something like "the will to power"), that is, anger is a reaction against hindrances to one's free will.

    Yes, it could be stated so, although "will to freedom" sounds a bit 19th-centuryish, sort of Schopenhauerish. I prefer the word control. People like to be in control and once control is taken away from them, the common reaction is anger and frustration. The commonality of the traffic jam, bus, lawnmower, printer jam examples, is that -for a short time- control over the flow of events in one's life breaks down. Things do not run according to expectation. This causes anger not because the physical self is threatened, but because the ego, the imagined self, is threatened.

    I think this is quite relevant, because the illusion of control is pervasive in modern life. While our technological society has gotten rid of many false beliefs, superstitions, and such, the illusion of control is continuously strengthened. Contracts, insurances, certificates, accounts and similar arrangements are designed to provide us with a sense of control over our life. Although uncertainty acceptance varies from culture to culture, it has overall declined in technological societies. The new cyber worlds in which many people now spent a significant amount of their time, has blown up the amount of control to unprecedented levels, and hence, the illusion is more complete than ever.

    And then there are people, who want to CONTROL anger. :D

    Cheers, Thomas
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    edited June 2010
    Nietzsches "Will to Power" is his metaethics, and it means that the human animal will seek to live life as much as possible - also on the account of others. This creates strife in which there are winners and losers. The losers have slave-morality, and they once revolted through Christianity. Now God is dead, so a new human race - the Superman - has to rise and create a new world of true morality - the morality of the Strong.
    Just like we cannot blame an eagle for preying on lambs, we shouldn't blame the Strong for preying on the weak - and the lambs should accept their place in the food chain.


    "Free will" is a very big topic to bring up. When you say you are controlled against your will by anger, you are following the thoughts of Frankfurt, who said that we have 1st and 2nd priority wishes. 2nd wishes are "wishes for wishes", while 1st wishes are just wishes. If our 2nd wish also becomes our 1st wish, the 1st wish is our true will and that is what we do. If we have two 1st wishes, and a 2nd wish for a certain 1st wish, but for some reason we do not manage to make the 2nd wish a 1st wish, we acted "against our will" - like the drug addict who wishes both to do drugs and not do drugs, but also wishes he didn't wish for drugs. If he do drugs it's against his will, if he don't he had his will.

    That frustration can lead to aggression is common knowledge. I wouldn't call that anger exactly, as it's brief and not directed against a threat. Anger arises when we protect ourselves against other humans and maybe animals. We get angry because we know the the other person breaches a social contract of non-violence and crosses our line by wishing to harm us intentionally.
    If someone accidentally steps us on the foot or hits us while wanting to wave at someone or whatever, we do not get angry.
    Likewise it's not possible to be angry with a tree which falls on us because the "action" isn't intentional. If the victim believed in a god, the god could become subject to the anger as this god would have been able to intervene - or maybe the god would be directly blamed as the cause.
    Aggression towards a sofa which you bump into is not anger but a primitive reaction, like the snake biting a branch which strokes it.

    The case of PTSD, as mentioned by others, is completely different. It's a mental disorder. The feelings PTSD-victims have arise from flash backs, which send the person mentally back into harms way.
    To add on the text above, PTSD primarily hits people who are hurt by other people (war, torture or the like), whereas catastrophes like hurricanes causes aversion and nervousness, or feelings of guilt from not saving others. Those are problems which are a lot easier to deal with, as they are conditionings. As a toddler I got bitten by a dog, which caused a mild "dogfobia" in me for some years before I got a deconditioning from many positive experiences with dogs.
  • edited June 2010
    Truthseeker
    I think this is quite relevant, because the illusion of control is pervasive in modern life. While our technological society has gotten rid of many false beliefs, superstitions, and such, the illusion of control is continuously strengthened. Contracts, insurances, certificates, accounts and similar arrangements are designed to provide us with a sense of control over our life.

    I agree with you.


    Ficus

    Thanks for information. I had a PTSD.
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