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Baptism
Having a debate with a friend about whether we'd baptise our kids.
She says she's a Catholic (though she believes in casual sex, with contraception and with other women
:rockon: ) so she would definetly baptise the kid - in case it died young so it would go to heaven.
i think forcing anyone, especially the impressionable youth, into one religion or another is the worst thing you can do. Sure, when they're informed enough to make a choice go for it, but is it not wrong to force a belief on someone else and limit their exposure to any 'outside' influence.
She says she's a Catholic (though she believes in casual sex, with contraception and with other women
:rockon: ) so she would definetly baptise the kid - in case it died young so it would go to heaven.i think forcing anyone, especially the impressionable youth, into one religion or another is the worst thing you can do. Sure, when they're informed enough to make a choice go for it, but is it not wrong to force a belief on someone else and limit their exposure to any 'outside' influence.
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Being sheep-like at the time, I followed with family tradition and wishes, and both my daughters were baptised... the gown was so pretty and a family heirloom, and it was so nice to see everyone again after so long....
Both Godmothers have been lifelong absentees, and my eldest daughter was instrumental in delaying her own confirmation, because she felt unready at the traditional age/time.... the result was that she was the eldest in the group, but also the most informed.
My youngest is not likely to be confirmed. We live in an Areligious country where Church and state are kept severely divided at arm's length.... She is not exposed to any form of Christian/Catholic influence.....therefore the likelyhood of her taking the veil is also somewhat remote - !!
Rock on is right, my friend
Just kidding.
Fede makes a good point about how some religions seem to shoot themselves in the foot.
I just can't help but believe that baptising an infant is just a way of making parents feel better and has no rhyme or reason - religiously-speaking.
I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the Bible that there is some sort of statement that baptism and such don't really come into play until a person reaches an age of understanding.
While being raised as a Christian - I wasn't baptized until I knew exactly why it was being done and why I was going through it. Otherwise it meant about as much as taking a bath.
Oddly enough, what I find interesting is:
Meditating is one of those things that could benefit a person regardless of what they believe. You don't have to go through any special acts or rites to gain the benefit of meditation. Unlike praying, communion, laying down a rug and bowing to east every morning, baptism, etc. Treating people "right" just because it's, in my opinion, a good thing to do - with no threat of Hell or promise of Heaven making you do it.
Good stuff, huh?
-bf
I agree, Simon.
I remember having a discussion with my girlfriend after she got on the Oprah soap-box regarding a show she had just seen about practices concerning "circumcism" (and that's not the correct term - but it's pretty PC) of women in various countries. The horrors that are inflicted on some women and little girls by removing central "sexual nerve" areas so that pleasure doesn't come into play for them during intercourse. How many times this is done in very unsurgical like environments, bleeding, infection, etc.
There are horrible, horrible stories regarding female circumcism - It's awful. I can't wrap my head around the culture or mentality that promotes these types of actions.
But... during our discussion, I brought up "male circumcism" to my girlfriend and it was pooh-poohed away as not being at all relative. That its what happens to little boys and what makes them look normal.
I thought little boys were normal when they came out of the womb.
I was kind of shocked by her statement. The only reason circumcism is for male is acceptable today is because it's been done for centuries. If this practice was something that was "new" - I would think people would be freaking out about it.
Anyway, I remember the sick feeling in my stomach when my son was circumcised. I didn't feel very good. I still remember that funky table they strapped him into - and how his little body went rigid and the screaming that took place when they started... and this is a practice to make boys look normal?
-bf
It is yet another manifestation of the hatred that men feel for women.
Male circumcision is much less traumatic surgery but, in the vast majority of cases, is just as unnecessary. The idea that a circumcised penis is "normal" is aberrant: it has been mutilated for no good reason.
As far as I know, no research has ever been carried out on the long-term psychological effect of cutting off the foreskin but we know that other infantile traumas can cause ineradicable damage. We object, quite rightly, to adults interfering with children's genitals but allow them to cut skin away. Go figure.
Simon, a little unclear at the comparsion of circumcision with adults "interfering" with childrens genitals?.....as I don't believe that they are done with the same motivation.
Is it Anti-Semitic to Question Circumcision?
by Nicolas Walter
It could be argued that it is anti-Christian to attack the doctrine of hell or the burning of heretics, anti-Muslim to attack the doctrine of hell or the mutilation of thieves, anti-Hindu to attack the forced marriage of children or the forced suicide of widows, or anti-Chinese to attack the infanticide of girls or the foot-binding of women.
Surely anything must be attacked which is cruel and unnecessary, whether it is a religious ritual or a social custom, and that the universal criterion should be the welfare of individuals and not the presentation of a collective tradition.
Observer, Sunday, 10 September 1995, p. 6.
Do you think that an infant whose genitals are touched abusively (and I include cutting the foreskin) is in the slightest interested in the toucher's motivation? A stranger taking you on his lap and cutting your penis: in any sane society this would result in prosecution!
Don't get me wrong, I believe as do an increasing number of Jewish parents that this practice is not necessary and indeed could be called an abuse. This practice is carried out on religious grounds, misguided it maybe, however it's not carried out as an act of perversion or sexual gratification. Perhaps, I am viewing this through the eyes of a potential Jewish reader of this forum, who might find the comparison a little offensive.
The reason for my previous post was to illustrate IMHO a genuine attempt at a tactful and sensitive arguement against the practice of circumcision be it Male of Female. We clearly are united in our opinion of the practice, I just feel that bringing other conotations may cloud the issue.
Does this therefore make all Jews insane.........??
I was just kind of whacked recalling a conversation about how awful it was do circumcise women - but totally acceptable to circumcise a boy.
I have difficulty with double-standards.
For me, it just bothered me watching my son go through that.
-bf
I have wondered for years whether the strange sexual laws that infest the Tanakh and the New Testament arise from the mutilation of Jewish males.
Whether these entry requirements actually definitively originate from God, or whether they are cunningly, insiduously and surreptitiously massaged in by Man, is now so unclear as to be almost entirely obscure. It is clear to me that an awful lot of hang-ups experienced by people ( be they social, moral or sexual) can be traced back in part if not in whole, to their religious upbringing.
Religion may well be held responsible for thousands of inhuman acts across the world, and for different creeds, but ultimately, it is Man who interprets, implements and acts upon these teachings, and to my mind, it is ultimately Man who should be held to account. As we have discussed previously, any set of scriptures may be interpreted in different ways, to suit the occasion.....
"Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance!" started out as "Send reinforcements, we're going to advance...." :crazy: