Meditation and anxiety

Syntax · June 2010

I started meditating in the spring of 2009 but ever since I’ve started to have panic attacks in January (luckily they are more or less gone now) I’ve had an enormous inner restlessness, there is something on my mind all the time almost like compulsive activity as well as anxiety and the associated symptoms.
<o></o>
Now I’m trying to get my practice out of neglect again I’m always met with horrible anxiety that lasts far longer than the meditation. Not sure what to do really, if I keep persisting will I get through it at some point?<o>

</o> I’m quite desperate about what to do, I’ve tried drugs but SSRIs had pretty much no effect on me and benzodiazepines just seem to take away the anxiety but leave the restlessness, not to mention the fact that worsen memory and cognition…<o>

</o> It’s particularly hard to find motivation to meditate when it makes me feel bad for a couple of hours. Am I doing something wrong and is there something else I should try? It’s so frustrating to have the tools to solve at least some of my problems but then not being able to use them.<o></o>

aMatt · June 2010

Syntax,

Has there been some kind of situational change that would contribute or create the panic attacks?

What kind of meditation have you been trying? When my mind is particularly restless, I count breaths. Specifically, I follow the method taught in this video.

Have you gone to a meditation teacher?

With warmth,

Matt

DairyLama · June 2010

Syntax wrote: »

I started meditating in the spring of 2009 but ever since I’ve started to have panic attacks in January (luckily they are more or less gone now) I’ve had an enormous inner restlessness, there is something on my mind all the time almost like compulsive activity as well as anxiety and the associated symptoms.
<O></O>
<O></O>

It sounds like you need some detailed advice, is there a local meditation group or class you can go to? And it's important to take medical / counselling advice as appropriate.
Breathing meditation is usually good for calming the mind, but these practices can also put us in touch more directly with our thoughts and feelings, this can be very uncomfortable.
Let us know how you get on.:)

P

fivebells · June 2010

Start with single-breath meditation. Treat them as individual exercises, like push-ups. If disturbance arises, stop. Work up to doing 100 of these a day.

lightwithin · June 2010

fivebells wrote: »

Start with single-breath meditation. Treat them as individual exercises, like push-ups. If disturbance arises, stop. Work up to doing 100 of these a day.

It might help if you describe this type of meditation, step by step for the OP or provide a link where they can read up about it.

fivebells · June 2010

If I notice that Syntax has come back and asked for that, I will.

Syntax · June 2010

Thanks for the kind replies; hopefully this post doesn’t come across with too much bitterness.<o>

</o>

aMatt wrote: »

Has there been some kind of situational change that would contribute or create the panic attacks?

aMatt wrote: »

What kind of meditation have you been trying? When my mind is particularly restless, I count breaths. Specifically, I follow the method taught in this video.

aMatt wrote: »

Have you gone to a meditation teacher?

porpoise wrote: »

It sounds like you need some detailed advice, is there a local meditation group or class you can go to? And it's important to take medical / counselling advice as appropriate.

lightwithin · June 2010

fivebells wrote: »

If I notice that Syntax has come back and asked for that, I will.

Hey! What about me!? I was curious about it too. LoL. But yeah, it's alright, no worries.

aMatt · June 2010

Syntax,

Your replies to the questions asked of you have been great help in hearing more about the world swirling around your senses

, you show great courage for opening up to strangers! I have to agree there are many in the world of psychology and psychiatry who seem to be nearly absent of wisdom, and have used their phds and mds to bolster their own egos. There are some good ones though, and if you keep searching, you might find one who listens, and listens well.

As your restlessness/fear goes, it sounds like a couple things I've seen.

First, do you happen to do any other kind of intoxicants on a regular to semi-regular basis? Sometimes if we are indulging in different chemically induced states of reality, we can have a backlash much like you describe. If you do or have recently stopped, some of the anxiety will simply vanish as your brain heals.

You said you've been depressed the better part of 7 years. I wonder what that looks like to you, if it comes from a specific set of perceptions you've held? Imagine as though you've had an underground stream of fear and panic, and the depression was a resultant of all of your grass and plants on the surface feeding from that stream. Through meditation, you could have punctured the veil, dug into the soil deep enough to experience that stream directly. The good news is that it is transient, and through following the eight fold path it does not "soak back into the soil."

The reason I ask if you had a teacher is not because I think you need help sitting and counting breaths. However, when we look into ourselves and find troubling emotions that come up, it can be a great help to have a strong and steady guide to skillfully help us let go. To experience it alone can be disheartening, and I'm sorry you've been more or less alone through it. It is not the fault of your mind, so don't go blaming yourself.

Is any of this making sense? Does it feel like it relates to some of what you've been experiencing?

The best thing would be to find a teacher, eastern or western, who is both skilled and open to hear you. If you simply can't get to a teacher, say so and if our exchange seems to be on target so far, perhaps we could look at some other things you could try. I don't want to overload one post

With warmth,

Matt

Brigid · June 2010

Hi Syntax,

You've already received excellent advice from the other posters on this thread and there's nothing more I could add. I just wanted to say that you're not alone with anxiety and its related challenges. There are many here on this board who struggle with panic and anxiety disorders and we understand, for the most part, what you're going through. You can always come here when you need someone to listen to you and to actually hear you. There are a lot of us in the same boat but there's always plenty of room for others.

By the way, I've found Pema Chodron and Trungpa Rinpoche's teachings to be particularly helpful with my panic issues.

Also, I stop meditating for a while when I'm struggling with panic attacks. I find during those acute times that I need to develop my brain's reasoning faculties more in order to get control over my mind. Once I'm calmed down again, usually after a few days to a week later, I go back to the sitting practice. I don't know if that will be of any benefit to you but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

I'm sending you wishes for peace and joy.

DairyLama · June 2010

Syntax wrote: »

Counseling also seems to be a waste of time, they only tell me things that I already know and that are not really helpful. Like they tell me that I should worry less, what an epiphany! Now how do I do that?

Some counselling can be good, maybe there's not much on offer locally?
In terms of self-help you might find it useful to do some metta bahavana practice, which is development of loving kindness. This is very helpful in developing a sense of acceptance, non-judgement and warmth, initially towards yourself.

P

Syntax · June 2010

Thanks again for the kind replies, it’s nice to not bury these things deeper in myself. Just wish I could repay the kindness somehow.<O></O>

aMatt wrote: »

Your replies to the questions asked of you have been great help in hearing more about the world swirling around your senses , you show great courage for opening up to strangers!

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>There is a good deal of difference between desperation and courage, and I don’t think I can take credit for the latter.
<O></O>

aMatt wrote: »

<O></O>
I have to agree there are many in the world of psychology and psychiatry who seem to be nearly absent of wisdom, and have used their phds and mds to bolster their own egos. There are some good ones though, and if you keep searching, you might find one who listens, and listens well.

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>Not sure if it has so much to do with ego as it has to do with people taking authority too seriously. When a professor speaks eagerly about the ideas he has worked on and loved, students are often a bit too swayed, it’s hard to give up things you have believed in for so long—too much of themselves is invested in it.<O></O>

Can’t say I blame them though, it’s kind of scary to know that authority really knows so little. Kind of like sitting in a plane and suddenly realizing that the pilot barely knows what a plane is.<O></O>

aMatt wrote: »

First, do you happen to do any other kind of intoxicants on a regular to semi-regular basis? Sometimes if we are indulging in different chemically induced states of reality, we can have a backlash much like you describe. If you do or have recently stopped, some of the anxiety will simply vanish as your brain heals.

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>Well I could write a list with everything I’ve been using the past six months but I can’t say that it would amount to much. Used 250mg of oxazepam the past 4 months (about 15-20 occasions) so not enough to even build up tolerance. Alcohol’s without doubt the worst I’ve used recently but I’m not a habitual drinker, I’m drunk less than once per month.<O></O>

aMatt wrote: »

You said you've been depressed the better part of 7 years. I wonder what that looks like to you, if it comes from a specific set of perceptions you've held?

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>I think it comes mostly from unbelievably demanding expectation of myself. I generally can’t stand not doing things well, making me go to absurd lengths to avoid things I don’t expect to do well at. Which in turn makes me hate myself a bit more and it just escalates from there. Combine that with low self-esteem and social anxiety and well, I’m sure you can see what it all leads to. I’m almost awed by how well constructed that trap is, every element just makes it stronger.<O></O>

I’ve also have issues with experiencing and expressing what I regard as weakness, though I’ve gotten better at that in the past two years. I suppose I somehow expected it to be possible overcome it by fighting against it. A lot of harm trough history seems to have come from this very idea.<O></O>

I also have a hard time connecting with people, I have no problem to get along with people causally despite being awkward at times but I don’t seem to connect to anyone. I recall at the point when the fear was at its worst and I was sure I wouldn’t make it through, the thing I seemed to have missed most in life was to get to know another mind. I really feel like I have never know anyone else and I’m pretty sure no one knows me since I’ve never shown myself. I mean, other people can impossibly be as shallow as they appear can they? Or are we all as lonely as I feel?<O></O>

It may seem strange, but I’m not sure I could get where I wanted to without going through what I have. Had I not ended up on this most arduous things would be very different. While I’ve pay a high price, there are some things I’ll gladly suffer for. It’s like when I’m running I push myself, my whole body burn and my pulse is felt in every extremity beating wildly. And my mind is dizzy—the thought to stop is spinning around incessantly—but instead I just put on a mad grin and push myself even harder. If it is possible to relate to suffering in life in such a way it would be an invitation rather than a burden, like wind under my wings. That there is resistance to overcome just seems to make it so much more worthwhile. Perhaps I am moving in the right direction but I have just made it unimaginably difficult for myself. <O></O>

Or maybe that’s just me trying to justify all my suffering. To turn it into a reason so I no longer need to feel its weight.<O></O><O></O>

aMatt wrote: »

Imagine as though you've had an underground stream of fear and panic, and the depression was a resultant of all of your grass and plants on the surface feeding from that stream. Through meditation, you could have punctured the veil, dug into the soil deep enough to experience that stream directly. The good news is that it is transient, and through following the eight fold path it does not "soak back into the soil."

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>That seems to be possible but with regards to my limited insight to the workings of mind, could not any explanation that correspond with my experience be the right one? I’m caught fighting shadows here, what it for example I was just walking close to an edge without noticing it and suddenly seeing how close I was to the precipice I suddenly feel terribly afraid. I certainly felt very strained prior to the panic attack, maybe I just stepped over the line and suddenly it was too much. Or maybe the fear was really just nothing, a mere ripple in consciousness and I just tangled myself in it. Maybe that’s what I’m doing right now.

I just don’t see how I could “figure it out”, does it even matter how and why it happened? I know how things are now and maybe it just sufficient to deal with that and just let go of what has passed.

Or what do you think? My understanding is very humble and being a beginner at such things I’ll gladly learn more.

aMatt wrote: »

The best thing would be to find a teacher, eastern or western, who is both skilled and open to hear you. If you simply can't get to a teacher, say so and if our exchange seems to be on target so far, perhaps we could look at some other things you could try. I don't want to overload one post

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>I have some reservations with teachers and following, but I’m willing to put that aside if it could help me. Any advice on how to find a teacher?<O></O>

Brigid wrote: »

Hi Syntax,
Also, I stop meditating for a while when I'm struggling with panic attacks. I find during those acute times that I need to develop my brain's reasoning faculties more in order to get control over my mind. Once I'm calmed down again, usually after a few days to a week later, I go back to the sitting practice. I don't know if that will be of any benefit to you but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>Well for now my anxiety is really diffuse; I don’t really get a break from so it would be difficult to find a window of opportunity. I don’t expect my situation to change much until the end of this year as I have some unfinished business to take care of this autumn and it would be utterly catastrophic if I didn’t manage it. Hopefully after that I’ll be a bit better. The fact that I’m exposed to people right now is also a major stress factor but that too should get better with exposure.<O></O>

porpoise wrote: »

Some counselling can be good, maybe there's not much on offer locally?
In terms of self-help you might find it useful to do some metta bahavana practice, which is development of loving kindness. This is very helpful in developing a sense of acceptance, non-judgement and warmth, initially towards yourself.

<LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>Doesn’t that kind of meditation require decent concentration to do? I’m not sure I’m there right now.<O></O>

aMatt · June 2010

Syntax wrote: »

Well I could write a list with everything I’ve been using the past six months but I can’t say that it would amount to much. Used 250mg of oxazepam the past 4 months (about 15-20 occasions) so not enough to even build up tolerance. Alcohol’s without doubt the worst I’ve used recently but I’m not a habitual drinker, I’m drunk less than once per month.

I was wondering about any other intoxicants... not prescriptions. LSD, X, Pot and Alcohol (among many others) can all help lead toward situations like the one you described. I didn't mean the reactive prescriptions, those are with guidance I presume?

Syntax wrote: »

I think it comes mostly from unbelievably demanding expectation of myself. I generally can’t stand not doing things well, making me go to absurd lengths to avoid things I don’t expect to do well at. Which in turn makes me hate myself a bit more and it just escalates from there. Combine that with low self-esteem and social anxiety and well, I’m sure you can see what it all leads to. I’m almost awed by how well constructed that trap is, every element just makes it stronger.

I’ve also have issues with experiencing and expressing what I regard as weakness, though I’ve gotten better at that in the past two years. I suppose I somehow expected it to be possible overcome it by fighting against it. A lot of harm trough history seems to have come from this very idea.

I also have a hard time connecting with people, I have no problem to get along with people causally despite being awkward at times but I don’t seem to connect to anyone. I recall at the point when the fear was at its worst and I was sure I wouldn’t make it through, the thing I seemed to have missed most in life was to get to know another mind. I really feel like I have never know anyone else and I’m pretty sure no one knows me since I’ve never shown myself. I mean, other people can impossibly be as shallow as they appear can they? Or are we all as lonely as I feel?

You seem to be highly judgmental, which seems to fuel all three of these challenges. Of yourself, of others, of the kinds of connections you cultivate with others, the quality of your work... can you see how much time you spend comparing things to your dreamed up ideals? This could easily be the source of much of your restlessness, anxiety and unhappiness. If you are unable to love reality the way it is, then neither will you appreciate who you are. There are always going to be places to improve, in ourselves and in our environment,
which makes finding loving kindness for what actually is here and now an important perspective to cultivate.

Developing this sense of appreciation for the way things are will help you with your restlessness. If you are continuously at odds with how things are, then you'll never find peace.

Maybe do some metta cultivation? Try checking out the information at buddhanet here. If you also check out the link for the metta bhavana, I'm sure you'll be well on your way. There are also some great threads on this board that focus on developing metta.

It can feel weird at first, saying that you want to be happy and that you want to love yourself and the world, but with time it becomes so obvious how simple and important it is, and your mind will certainly transform into one that is more at peace and happy.

Syntax wrote: »

I just don’t see how I could “figure it out”, does it even matter how and why it happened? I know how things are now and maybe it just sufficient to deal with that and just let go of what has passed.

Or what do you think? My understanding is very humble and being a beginner at such things I’ll gladly learn more.

Well, it seems you are still chewing the cud from yesterday's grass. Sometimes looking into our recent past can help us understand where to focus our mindfulness. Letting go of the root causes is better than trying to find peace with the symptoms.

Syntax wrote: »

I have some reservations with teachers and following, but I’m willing to put that aside if it could help me. Any advice on how to find a teacher?<o></o>

If you work on letting go of the perfections, cultivating a curiosity about what actually is, then I bet the right teacher will come along, or you will find them without too much effort.

Its not really about following... being a student isn't subservience, that rings of the judge. Being a student is simply being humble enough (or fed up enough) that you can accept that you don't have the answers. The best way to return loving kindness offered to you is by sitting down with yourself and healing your ailments... because then you'll be much more helpful toward humankind in general.

With warmth,

Matt

DairyLama · June 2010

Syntax wrote: »

<LINK href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><LINK href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx" rel=themeData><LINK href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CAnimae%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml" rel=colorSchemeMapping><STYLE>  </STYLE>Doesn’t that kind of meditation require decent concentration to do? I’m not sure I’m there right now.<O></O>

No, metta bahavana isn't that difficult to do, and is often taught to beginners.

P

Cristina · June 2010

Hi Syntax. (What kind of syntax? Haha I'm a computer programmer...)

Anyway, I can relate. How did you get rid of your panic attacks? And how do you react when you have one? I got rid of my panic attacks for the most part as well, but I still have one from time to time. The difference is I am not afraid of them anymore. And that's really the key. My anxiety bible is Hope and Help for your Nerves by Claire Weekes. You may find it enlightening in its own way.

I also read an ebook called panic away, but it's kind of expensive and pretty much encapsulated in the Weekes book anyway, but it does have a useful "one move" technique. The idea is that when your panic gets at its worst during the attack, you ask for more. You demand that your body deliver even more, stronger symptoms. That your thoughts race even faster. Of course, after a point, your body cannot do this anymore and you leave the attack feeling like there's nothing you can't handle.

I wonder why meditation makes you so anxious. How do you typically cope with your anxiety? I wonder if it's not by distraction. Do you flip on the tv or go online or pick up a book? Meditation is certainly not a distraction, and perhaps it's a window where all your anxious thoughts start to bubble up and you have nothing to hold them back with anymore. That could be the cause of your anxiety. If you're meditating though, are you watching your thoughts while you do so? That might give you insight into what kinds of thoughts you're having and why they are making you anxious.

For depression, I always recommend strongly a book called Feeling Good. It's seriously spot on. I think cognitive behavioural therapy is really the way to go. For me, I use my judgement and decide how bad things are and if I should use CBT to get out of a particularly rough patch, or perservere and go with Buddhist practices. Meditation can be scary and overwhelming if you're in a very sensitive anxiety state. So go easy on yourself. In her book, Claire Weekes talks about this anxiety state, and it really does take some time to get out of it. So take it easy, get to a more relaxed place before you try meditating, if it's causing you such strife. Be kind to yourself. Read Feeling Good. Develop your self esteem. It all takes time. But knowing that it takes time makes it much more bearable. This is all just part of life.

So really, if you haven't tried CBT, give it a go. Pick up Hope and Help for your Nerves and Feeling Good from the library. They really pulled me out of the nightmare I was in. I see Buddhism as the next step. Although I guess you've also got people like Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche who straight up meditated his way out of anxiety and panic, but maybe us mere mortals take a bit more coaxing. Although I have a feeling my final freedom will come through meditation. It just takes a certain level of okayness to function in every day life, and CBT just makes sense and is really effective and quick.

Let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck!

Floating_Abu · June 2010

Syntax wrote: »

I started meditating in the spring of 2009 but ever since I’ve started to have panic attacks in January (luckily they are more or less gone now) I’ve had an enormous inner restlessness, there is something on my mind all the time almost like compulsive activity as well as anxiety and the associated symptoms.
<o></o>
Now I’m trying to get my practice out of neglect again I’m always met with horrible anxiety that lasts far longer than the meditation. Not sure what to do really, if I keep persisting will I get through it at some point?<o>

</o> I’m quite desperate about what to do, I’ve tried drugs but SSRIs had pretty much no effect on me and benzodiazepines just seem to take away the anxiety but leave the restlessness, not to mention the fact that worsen memory and cognition…<o>

</o> It’s particularly hard to find motivation to meditate when it makes me feel bad for a couple of hours. Am I doing something wrong and is there something else I should try? It’s so frustrating to have the tools to solve at least some of my problems but then not being able to use them.<o></o>

You might want to try to see if there are any experienced centres and teachers nearby. Established.

Syntax · July 2010

I apologize that I’ve taken so long to reply, just lots of things going on right now. I spent my summer vacation last weekend—basically the Friday off—with my family and had no internet access. This past week I’ve been working as many hours overtime as I could and worked on Saturday too. Hopefully I won’t take as long to reply next time.

aMatt wrote: »

I was wondering about any other intoxicants... not prescriptions. LSD, X, Pot and Alcohol (among many others) can all help lead toward situations like the one you described. I didn't mean the reactive prescriptions, those are with guidance I presume?

Guidance? I trust my own knowledge about the drugs I use far more that I trust what I’ve been told by the doctor that prescribed them. You would probably be surprised how little doctors know about what they prescribe. Just as a curiosity next time you get a prescription from a doctor, try to ask how the drugs work. My own approach is to never take anything that I haven’t looked up for myself.
And other intoxicants, well I wouldn’t touch any kind of stimulants right now—I’m not that stupid. Never tried pot or MDMA. LSD and the likes could be tremendously healing or just devastatingly destructive, as I’m not prepared to deal with the possible negative consequences I won’t go down that road. However it would most certainly give me access to the whole of the fear that’s tormenting me, but considering how I deal with its smaller fragments I’m quite glad that I don’t have to encounter it all at once.

aMatt wrote: »

You seem to be highly judgmental, which seems to fuel all three of these challenges. Of yourself, of others, of the kinds of connections you cultivate with others, the quality of your work... can you see how much time you spend comparing things to your dreamed up ideals? This could easily be the source of much of your restlessness, anxiety and unhappiness. If you are unable to love reality the way it is, then neither will you appreciate who you are. There are always going to be places to improve, in ourselves and in our environment,
which makes finding loving kindness for what actually is here and now an important perspective to cultivate.

Developing this sense of appreciation for the way things are will help you with your restlessness. If you are continuously at odds with how things are, then you'll never find peace.

Indeed. It’s perfectly clear to me that I would be better off without judgment; somehow it’s not sufficient to merely know this. I see how much weariness it brings on both the mind and body. It’s not any different from how alcoholics know that drinking is bad for them. I need the discipline to control my mind, I know I don’t need to judge yet I do it compulsively. It’s not something that can be overturned in a day, after all it’s is years of unwise habits that I need to overthrow. Still I was a lot less judgmental six months ago than I was two years back and I felt that I was going in the right direction until my setbacks. Now I’m back where I began and I have a different path ahead, I’ll have to learn to walk again.

porpoise wrote: »

No, metta bahavana isn't that difficult to do, and is often taught to beginners.

P

Maybe I’ll look into it then, but I expect it to be hard for me to take it seriously.

Cristina wrote: »

Hi Syntax. (What kind of syntax? Haha I'm a computer programmer...)

Anyway, I can relate. How did you get rid of your panic attacks? And how do you react when you have one? I got rid of my panic attacks for the most part as well, but I still have one from time to time. The difference is I am not afraid of them anymore. And that's really the key. My anxiety bible is Hope and Help for your Nerves by Claire Weekes. You may find it enlightening in its own way. I also read an ebook called panic away, but it's kind of expensive and pretty much encapsulated in the Weekes book anyway, but it does have a useful "one move" technique. The idea is that when your panic gets at its worst during the attack, you ask for more. You demand that your body deliver even more, stronger symptoms. That your thoughts race even faster. Of course, after a point, your body cannot do this anymore and you leave the attack feeling like there's nothing you can't handle.

Actually that technique is the way I discovered that it was a panic attack I was experiencing. The first time they occurred I had no idea what they were; I experienced them as overwhelming dysphoria, erratic heartbeat, sweating and extreme unease. It was first when I threw myself into it that I realized that it was just fear. The following weeks I handled it pretty well, the attacks were bad but I just too it one breath at the time. Kind of like when you’re really close to throwing up, by trying to stay with the nausea and take it one breath at the time, throwing up can be avoided. I’ve been using the same technique when having really bad migraines since I was a kid. When I was around five I started getting headaches where I basically just wanted to die, when pain got too overwhelming it was impossible to try to calm down so I was just trashing in bed and there was of course an overwhelming struggle in my mind as well. But when I got sufficiently exhausted and you kind of got the message that fighting did nothing I got to exceptionally calm states, where pain was still present but somehow did not hurt. Still do that sometimes when I have headaches, just lie down and do absolutely nothing until the mind become perfectly still.

Cristina wrote: »

I wonder why meditation makes you so anxious. How do you typically cope with your anxiety? I wonder if it's not by distraction. Do you flip on the tv or go online or pick up a book? Meditation is certainly not a distraction, and perhaps it's a window where all your anxious thoughts start to bubble up and you have nothing to hold them back with anymore. That could be the cause of your anxiety. If you're meditating though, are you watching your thoughts while you do so? That might give you insight into what kinds of thoughts you're having and why they are making you anxious.

Well the ways I usually handle anxiety is either by distraction or by indulging in my fears, in other words, poorly. Once again this is not by lack of insight; I just don’t have the strength to do the right thing. This is something I hope to develop over time in my practice.
The reason why meditation makes me anxious is that I react to the sorry state that my mind is in. I know that should just accept it, but this is exceptionally hard for me.

Don’t have time to write any more, I have to get up at 5.30 for my morning jog. Thanks for all the replies!

fivebells · July 2010

Syntax wrote: »

Maybe I’ll look into [loving-kindness meditation] then, but I expect it to be hard for me to take it seriously.

That's a shame. Why do you think it'll be hard to take seriously? It's a classic prescription for anxiety.

JetsFan366 · July 2010

Hi Syntax (Another programmer here - does battling with code lead us to enlightenment?!

I too, can relate. Like Brigid said there seem to be many on this board that have had such issues. After all, Buddhism helps us overcome suffering, and what is more suffer-y than anxiety & depression? And thus the search...

I find a great 'active' meditation when my brain is very agitated is the body-scan. It's basically running over each part of your body and really tuning into the feelings there. Like the toes of your left foot for example - how often do you really pay attention to how the middle toe of your left foot is feeling? Probably not so often, and so it takes effort to tune yourself in there. And that effort can occupy your mind just enough to act as a bridge. Here is a recording of one that you can stream:
http://mindfulness-solution.com/DownloadMeditations.html

Another thing you might want to try is some gentle hatha yoga. That can also act as a bridge, and help you learn NOT to push yourself so hard. That was the biggest hurdle for me. As a type-A American, I have been taught all my life to always compete and try to be the best and never let up and I can be anything I want to be and anything bad that happens to me is probably because I didn't work hard enough, and being number 2 is just being the best loser and... phew. I think that way of thinking can help some achieve 'success' in our capatalistic competitive, but for the sensitive, it can just hammer you down. One of the main things I think you should try is just observing when anxiety hits you. Be mindful of how your body reacts - like tightening chest, clenching jaw, shrugging shoulders, etc. But don't necessarily unclench anything, just notice, and go about your business. As a runner, you need to walk before you run, and just noticing and accepting is a great first step.

I highly recommend the following books. They really helped me and also exposed me to mindfulness:
The Mindful Way Through Depression
Mindfulness Solutions (the book for the site I mentioned above)

Best -

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