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I've always wondered at the dichotomy between the "nice Jewish boy" stereotype and the Jewish Rambo stereotype as personified by almost anyone in the Israeli military. Very odd, because I've known some "nice Jewish boys" who went into the Israeli military and kicked butt (for better or worse), and their mothers didn't see any contradiction.
Yah, its not that you can't be kind and thoughtful and still be a bad ass simultaneously. However, a lot of people don't seem to think so, consciously or subconsciously. In my view, if you're actually tough, you don't really have to put on a persona of what people think toughness embodies.
I've always wondered at the dichotomy between the "nice Jewish boy" stereotype and the Jewish Rambo stereotype as personified by almost anyone in the Israeli military. Very odd, because I've known some "nice Jewish boys" who went into the Israeli military and kicked butt (for better or worse), and their mothers didn't see any contradiction.
It's a simple matter of in- and out-groups. They're nice to their dear old mothers, and bastards to the sub-human terrorist Pallies.
I've been on all sides of this at different times in my life. I much prefer the middle... but if the top happens due to being good at the middle... that's fine as I find myself being instinctually democratic.
I've always wondered at the dichotomy between the "nice Jewish boy" stereotype and the Jewish Rambo stereotype as personified by almost anyone in the Israeli military. Very odd, because I've known some "nice Jewish boys" who went into the Israeli military and kicked butt (for better or worse), and their mothers didn't see any contradiction.
It's a simple matter of in- and out-groups. They're nice to their dear old mothers, and bastards to the sub-human terrorist Pallies.
Yah, good point. I've heard some of the horror stories about how some of the guards really harass Palestinians trying to make it home past the wall, which is all wrong. I think what makes someone a good person isn't necessarily how they treat people they know. That's pretty easy to do, and most people are very capable of that. Its really how you treat people you don't know that's a measure of character, like the good Samaritan parable.
One hears a lot about women who like macho guys, or abusive guys. One rarely, if ever, hears about women who like gentle guys, sweet guys, or guys with more integrated male-female qualities. But there are lots of those women, too.
I think a lot of that's perception. Its really a cliche with tv shows on Lifetime where you hear about women staying with abusive men. It has a colonel of truth, like most things, and when one sees that play out, it makes for good gossip. All the women who don't go for jerks aren't noticed by the media, or people in general, because its too mundane. When things are going ok, nobody notices. I think it has somewhat to do with the fact that its very much a part of human nature to fixate on all the flaws when looking outward but very much not a part of human tendency to see any of the flaws when examining the self internally.
Plus, it makes for more interesting subject matter on CSI and and Oprah, which is all ok, but I've run across some people that really fixate on that, some of them being the women who get into those abusive relationships. They assume that that's how it is for everyone, but I think some people gravitate toward negativity and create their own misfortune, as well as their own mythos as to why they keep ending up in the same place. The easiest thing for them to do is assume its a universal phenomenon. The media latches onto it and makes a lot of noise about it, and I think that's why you rarely hear about the more stable women. They like reporting drama for ratings. Needless to say, there's a lot of pathological behavior built around that cliche about women liking abusive alpha males.
A study showed that women are more interested in sex when their experience involves some element of danger. Not clear on the methodology etc I recall it from a conversation with my brother who is not dumb and would not just get everything wrong in his readings.
This could be why women are in some cases attracted to loud dynamic and flashy males. Due to the excitement. That is extrapolation on my part from the study and a generalization.
So take your dates to a horror movie or bungy jumping if you want to get laid. Just kidding.
Oh and I recall on another forum somebody talking about results of a study that showed that women find men more attractive who have mouths which look like they could bite someone. Something like that, I found it absurd.
A study showed that women are more interested in sex when their experience involves some element of danger.
Oh good heavens, Jeffrey--this is ridiculous! The human race never would've survived if there were any danger present during our most vulnerable moments. Women like men who make them feel safe. That's partly what men are for, you know, with the extra muscle power....
When I was in my late teens/early 20's I used to find feminine men very attractive - and they weren't bulging with macho muscles.. nor making me feel safe!
Everyones an individual of course, but I found that what Jeffrey said to be true for the majority of women. Women want men who are in charge, self confident, even if it's masking a deep sense of immature insecurity, and they just take over or make things happen, etc. It's mostly the bad boys that do this. It seems that most women who aren't spiritually inclined fall into Jeffrey's statement. So, this would probably dis-include most women present on this board or in most spiritual communities who have a sense of depth perception.
I'm not talking about conscious desires, but subconscious responses. We are still partially animals, even if we have a transcending intelligence and potential for awareness beyond even being human.
Women like men who make them feel safe. That's partly what men are for, you know, with the extra muscle power....
I don't think that's true for all women. Some women like 'bad boys' and fantasise about being able to tame them !
Right; there's all kinds of women with all kinds of preferences. But I still think that women who like "bad boys" are in the minority. I would hope we could avoid promoting stereotypes.
When I was in my late teens/early 20's I used to find feminine men very attractive - and they weren't bulging with macho muscles.. nor making me feel safe!
Me too. But I bet they made you feel emotionally safe. There many types of "safety".
I found that what Jeffrey said to be true for the majority of women. Women want men who are in charge, self confident, even if it's masking a deep sense of immature insecurity, and they just take over or make things happen, etc. It's mostly the bad boys that do this.
I disagree that it's the majority of women. And now you're stereotyping men. There are plenty of confident (not arrogant, but confident in a healthy way), take-charge guys who aren't "bad boys". Maybe it's a comment on mainstream Western culture that people believe otherwise. And immaturity is SO annoying! Better someone who's mature and easy-going, than immature, but take-charge/pushy. So, to tie into the OP, are you implying that alphas tend towards immaturity? Just wondering. Interesting observation.
@Shadowleaver : From what you described there, I can clearly see myself as an 'omega' male being unable to really fit in a group, and yeah, I was harrased until I expressed myself in a more violent manner ( alpha and beta males learnt the hardway not to get on my wrong side at the wrong time) . As a buddhist , maybe I did a wrong thing, maybe I did a right thing, to win my 'independence' from a group which tried to indirectly but forcefully impose their 'principles' on me. Who knows ? About male hierarchy, I don't really, let's say I don't give a damn. Meaning that, I can be my own boss and my own god 99,9% of the time ( I've learned this from Fight Club).
There is no real hierarchy, IMO. I have to say that, beta males tend to choose instinctually their alpha-male leaders. When an alpha male fails to be the 'king', he is overthrown and replaced, and finally he falls in disgrace and eventualy becomes a weak omega male.
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Plus, it makes for more interesting subject matter on CSI and and Oprah, which is all ok, but I've run across some people that really fixate on that, some of them being the women who get into those abusive relationships. They assume that that's how it is for everyone, but I think some people gravitate toward negativity and create their own misfortune, as well as their own mythos as to why they keep ending up in the same place. The easiest thing for them to do is assume its a universal phenomenon. The media latches onto it and makes a lot of noise about it, and I think that's why you rarely hear about the more stable women. They like reporting drama for ratings. Needless to say, there's a lot of pathological behavior built around that cliche about women liking abusive alpha males.
This could be why women are in some cases attracted to loud dynamic and flashy males. Due to the excitement. That is extrapolation on my part from the study and a generalization.
So take your dates to a horror movie or bungy jumping if you want to get laid. Just kidding.
Oh and I recall on another forum somebody talking about results of a study that showed that women find men more attractive who have mouths which look like they could bite someone. Something like that, I found it absurd.
I think it's possible to be alpha, beta and omega all at once. depending on what situation, and what people involved.
Right; there's all kinds of women with all kinds of preferences. But I still think that women who like "bad boys" are in the minority. I would hope we could avoid promoting stereotypes. Me too. But I bet they made you feel emotionally safe. There many types of "safety". I disagree that it's the majority of women. And now you're stereotyping men. There are plenty of confident (not arrogant, but confident in a healthy way), take-charge guys who aren't "bad boys". Maybe it's a comment on mainstream Western culture that people believe otherwise.
And immaturity is SO annoying! Better someone who's mature and easy-going, than immature, but take-charge/pushy. So, to tie into the OP, are you implying that alphas tend towards immaturity? Just wondering. Interesting observation.
From what you described there, I can clearly see myself as an 'omega' male being unable to really fit in a group, and yeah, I was harrased until I expressed myself in a more violent manner ( alpha and beta males learnt the hardway not to get on my wrong side at the wrong time) . As a buddhist , maybe I did a wrong thing, maybe I did a right thing, to win my 'independence' from a group which tried to indirectly but forcefully impose their 'principles' on me. Who knows ?
About male hierarchy, I don't really, let's say I don't give a damn. Meaning that, I can be my own boss and my own god 99,9% of the time ( I've learned this from Fight Club).
There is no real hierarchy, IMO. I have to say that, beta males tend to choose instinctually their alpha-male leaders. When an alpha male fails to be the 'king', he is overthrown and replaced, and finally he falls in disgrace and eventualy becomes a weak omega male.